Sox trade Gio Gonzalez, Fautino De Los Santos and Ryan Sweeney for Nick Swisher

cue the "beane robbed KW" articles...

by larry on Jan 3, 2008 1:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

or the 'beane loves sox prospects' articles

by larry on Jan 3, 2008 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

dont tease me

isnt he a good OBP guy?

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 3, 2008 1:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Gio - Sweeney - DLS

are the names I'm reading on Soxtalk. Blah.

by CWSKeith on Jan 3, 2008 1:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

hopefully

thats not true.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 3, 2008 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

sweney would be ok yes?

just not dls...

by The Wizard on Jan 3, 2008 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ALL OF THEM!!!!!

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Jan 3, 2008 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

In the past half hour, I've confirmed with three sources that the A's have dealt outfielder Nick Swisher to the Chicago White Sox for three top prospects: outfielder Ryan Sweeney, left-hander Gio Gonzalez and right-hander Fautino De Los Santos.

The A's are expected to make an announcement in the next 10 to 20 minutes.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/indexn?blogid=21

by larry on Jan 3, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

fucking awful

is how i would describe this. absolutely criminal to trade those players for 3 years of swisher.

by larry on Jan 3, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

My heart would be in my throat right now.

There are a handful of players that you gut your future to trade for. Nick Swisher ain't one of 'em.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 3, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

throw sweeney out even

and assume the low end of expectations. 12 friggin' years of, at the very least, a very good reliever (DLS) and a back of the rotation starter (gio). swisher is a very nice player - and i think he'll continue to improve as he hits his prime - but not that nice.

by larry on Jan 3, 2008 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm

with you on this one, larry....we have absoutely nothing left in the minors....I am now officially on the Kenny is incompetent bandwagon...and it hurts me to say it. Even more amazing is that I don't readily come to such harsh conclusions. This is unforgiveable.

by dantesox on Jan 3, 2008 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm hoping on the bandwagon

by The Wizard on Jan 3, 2008 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i don't like to make rash pronouncements

it's still january 3. moves can still be made. but signs point to trouble...

by larry on Jan 3, 2008 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Meanwhile...

The Astros celebrate. They no longer have the worst farm system. Anyone want to guess who does?

by HulkSmash on Jan 3, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

my mistake

i should know better than to go somewhere else than cot's for contract status. it's five years at a very reasonable rate for swisher. a bit better but i still wouldn't do the deal.

by larry on Jan 3, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

on paper

we got fleeced. we just have to hope gio and DLS dont turn out to be any good.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 3, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

From MLB TradeRumors.com.

Swisher Traded To White Sox

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/01/swisher-traded.html

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Jan 3, 2008 1:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Who on earth would the A's want?

Other than Gio and DLS?

I'm really hoping it's BA, DLS and a non-Gio prospect. But then there's no way the A's do that deal.

Crap. I can't see a way where it's not the two pitchers.

by BridgeportJoe on Jan 3, 2008 1:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Sweeney

and one of the two pitchers is ok, but if he gave all three....well, I've just lost it on Kenny....that would be a horrible trade.

by dantesox on Jan 3, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

His methods have become...unsound.

"Jerry Owens played one heck of a center field and created that Scott Podsednik sparkplug type at the top," said Williams of Owens.

by ChicagoPete on Jan 3, 2008 1:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

gio AND dls?

god, highway robbery...

by The Wizard on Jan 3, 2008 1:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Will they be teaching him

how to pitch?

"Each one of my (off-season acquisition)targets has that edge to them, that go-getter attitude. We need it. We will embrace it." - Kenny Williams (11/28/07)

by tailgater on Jan 3, 2008 1:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

it was for gio, dls., and sweeney

by Jbasic89 on Jan 3, 2008 1:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

the hawk forgot to remind kenny

not to deal with Billy Ball!

Dubee and Danks and pray for Taco Bell

by hscs on Jan 3, 2008 1:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Goodbye Jerry, we now have a new CF

Our offense just got dramatically better in 2008. KW and Ozzie were making noise about OBP, would be pretty cool if they bat him leadoff:

Swisher CF
OCab SS
Thome DH
Konerko 1B
Dye RF
AJ C
Fields 3B
Quentin LF
Richar/Uribe 2B

"Jerry Owens played one heck of a center field and created that Scott Podsednik sparkplug type at the top," said Williams of Owens.

by ChicagoPete on Jan 3, 2008 1:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I thought young pitching

was very valuable.

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Jan 3, 2008 1:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

That's awful.

Just fucking awful.

I'm really pissed now.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 3, 2008 1:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

agreed

i feel like throwing up.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 3, 2008 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I just did.

by BustedFlush on Jan 3, 2008 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

so lets see

we traded our #1, #2, #4, and #8 prospects according to baseball prospectus this offseason!!! way to go kenny!

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 3, 2008 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yay now broadways next in line!

by Jbasic89 on Jan 3, 2008 1:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

from the trib

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/01/sox-compelte-tr.html

and the usual energy and hard-nosedness from KW:

Nick is a quality switch hitter who consistently gets on base, hits for power and drives in runs," Sox GM Ken Williams said in a statement. "He gives Ozzie Guillen offensive flexibility with his ability to hit in a number of spots up and down the batting order, and his athleticism allows him to play any outfield position or first base.

"Nick brings to the ballpark a mix of hard-nosed play, energy and a commitment to winning, and he brings it each and every day. He's a great addition to our team and clubhouse."

by larry on Jan 3, 2008 1:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

theres your backup firstbasemen

by Jbasic89 on Jan 3, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Chicago tough.

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Jan 3, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Although this trade could hurt us in

the long term, it looks pretty good next season.

An OF of CQ, Swisher & Dye would be worth watching. Everyone is prospect obsessed right now, but it's really a coin flip whether or Gio and DLS pan out.

by BoKnows on Jan 3, 2008 1:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Makes no sense

clearly KW is convinced we don't suck. If we were a true competitor, perhaps this is an ok, not great deal, as Swisher is an above average player. But we're not a competitor, and we just handed away our only 2 prospects worth a damn...and Sweeney, who is Iowan for Jeremy Reed.

by Bull Pain on Jan 3, 2008 1:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

It really is stupid

They might as well have just caved in and given Rowand what he wanted, they would have kept their young pitchers.

"Jerry Owens played one heck of a center field and created that Scott Podsednik sparkplug type at the top," said Williams of Owens.

by ChicagoPete on Jan 3, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's been determined that

Jose Contreras was 18 when he came from Cuba in '03. So he hasn't even reached his peak production years.

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Jan 3, 2008 1:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

We need a variation on a

12 Step Program theme.

"One Year at a Time"

Last year's history and fuck next year.

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Jan 3, 2008 1:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

For Sweeney and DLS or Sweeney and Gio

I'd like this trade. Or heck even Sweeney, DLS/Gio and Shelby. But man all three really hurts.

Swisher is a very good young hitter who has been playing in a pitcher's park and is just entering his prime. Offensively, he is likely to be superior to Hunter, Rowand, and Jones both now and for the forseeable future. I wouldn't be surprised if he posted a .900 OPS in the cell and he projects at .875 or so.

But da#% that is a really high price to pay. Can't say I like it.

by bhoov on Jan 3, 2008 1:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Its time for Kenny to move on

He has burned the farm system to the ground, to compete with the Royals next year for the immortal battle of 4th place in the AL Central.

This team will be complete horseshit for the next 5 years because of this goof. Other GMs must get excited when they deal with Kenny. Kenny is on the phone, lets get whats left of the farm system.

by southsideirish71 on Jan 3, 2008 1:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Hey guys

I heard Nick Swisher is a grinder. Am I right?

"P.S. if Cintron gets traded or released I will buy drinks for the whole board" - tubesox 6/24/07

by mjthor on Jan 3, 2008 1:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

all signs point to yes

by Jbasic89 on Jan 3, 2008 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hard-Nosed Play = Grindy

"Each one of my (off-season acquisition)targets has that edge to them, that go-getter attitude. We need it. We will embrace it." - Kenny Williams (11/28/07)

by tailgater on Jan 3, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

quentin to center?

[dvd]:

Swisher, a switch-hitter, has been a corner outfielder but may be asked to move to center field with the Sox. Or, newly acquired left fielder Carlos Quentin could move. Jermaine Dye is expected to remain in right field.

by The Wizard on Jan 3, 2008 1:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

How about

Trade Thome to someone for a prospect or two (if that's possible) and have JD DH? Watching JD in right field these days makes me cringe almost as much as watching Mack in CF

"P.S. if Cintron gets traded or released I will buy drinks for the whole board" - tubesox 6/24/07

by mjthor on Jan 3, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

From a poster on MLB TradeRumors.com.

"As an A's fan I feel like I just got blindsided by a truck. Had no idea this was coming and Swisher was the player I least expected to be dealt aside from Chavez.

I don't know anything about the 2 guys other than Gonzalez.... but this is a sad day for the A's. Swisher is incredibly hard working, and one of the most fun players to watch in the league IMO. Hope these guys are ballers b/c Swish had the pedigree, talent, and drive to make it big in the league.

Best wishes on your new squad Swish. You'll be missed out west."

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Jan 3, 2008 1:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Oh my God, I was right!

Swisher is incredibly hard working

"P.S. if Cintron gets traded or released I will buy drinks for the whole board" - tubesox 6/24/07

by mjthor on Jan 3, 2008 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I like Swisher.

I really do. He's a nice player to have. But he doesn't make the White Sox into a contender, and they gave up WAY too much for him.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 3, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

the only saving grace is

swishers contract.

Swisher, 27, is signed at a very reasonable price: $3.5MM in '08, $5.3MM in '09, $6.75MM in '10, $9MM in '11, and a $10.25MM club option for '12 with a $1MM buyout.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 3, 2008 1:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

so he has 5 more years on his contract (4+1)?

by The Wizard on Jan 3, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

rotoworld

provided me with bad info on his contract status. five years at those prices is quite good. i feel somewhat better about the trade now. still wouldn't have done it.

by larry on Jan 3, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

right

i ceased puking when i read that, now im just nauseous.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 3, 2008 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

A's fans

not terribly happy either.

http://www.athleticsnation.com/story/2008/1/3/143136/8394

by Bull Pain on Jan 3, 2008 1:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

What the fuck do they know?

They probably have very minimal information about Gio and DLS, and are automatically going to reject unknowns for a player like Swisher. Once they find out what they're getting, they'll be shitting their pants with glee.

"P.S. if Cintron gets traded or released I will buy drinks for the whole board" - tubesox 6/24/07

by mjthor on Jan 3, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We got fucking robbed.

I like Swisher a lot but Jesus Christ.

by SSH2005 on Jan 3, 2008 1:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

well maybe we can ship out crede

for some propsects now that theres no room for fields anywhere but AAA and he sure aint going back there.

by Jbasic89 on Jan 3, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Crede isn't even going to net us the...

equivalent of Ryan Sweeney.

by SSH2005 on Jan 3, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

B&B

Boers and Bernstein can't get on the air soon enough -- listening to Murph with Ed Farmer right now is just plain painful. Farmer likes our chances against the Tigers because Craig Monroe and Brandon Inge always hurt us. Yeah, Granderson and Cabrera got nuthin'.

Oh well, at least Murph was finally informed about Swisher's contract, which runs through 2011 or 2012 (club option) and has stopped talking about how he'll only be on the Sox for three years.

Konerko or Thome trade on the horizon?

Stretch!

by stevegoz on Jan 3, 2008 1:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Something to consider

While Gio and DLS are still prospects, Swisher has proven himself to be at least somewhat of a major league asset. I'm with you all right now that we got robbed worse than a drunken fratboy in Tijuana, but we might be singing a different tune in a few years. Who knows?

"P.S. if Cintron gets traded or released I will buy drinks for the whole board" - tubesox 6/24/07

by mjthor on Jan 3, 2008 1:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

and swisher's plane could crash on the way here

by larry on Jan 3, 2008 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i think that wed get our guys back

in the case that happens

by Jbasic89 on Jan 3, 2008 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

nope

by larry on Jan 3, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

TOUCHE

"P.S. if Cintron gets traded or released I will buy drinks for the whole board" - tubesox 6/24/07

by mjthor on Jan 3, 2008 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ha!!!

brilliant.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 3, 2008 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Knowing our luck...

...he would survive, but spend the next three years rehabbing. On the Sox' dime.

by BridgeportJoe on Jan 3, 2008 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The optimistic view of this trade...

Gio may be an injury-risk.
DLS hasn't proven anything yet at higher minor league levels.
Sweeney already looks like a bust.

But that is a total homeristic view of the trade. Having Swisher for 5 years is awesome though. Still, signing Mike Cameron for a couple years and keeping our prospects may have been a better idea.

by SSH2005 on Jan 3, 2008 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Swisher vs. Rowand

Nick Swisher (Born 11/25/80)
5 years/$26.75M (2007-11), plus 2012 club option
Lifetime .251 .361 .464 OPS+ 118

Aaron Rowand (Born 8/29/77)
5 years/$60M (2008-12)
Lifetime .286 .343 .462 OPS+ 106

Is the difference big enough to make it worth gutting your farm system? IMO they should have signed Rowand. We've got cash, what we don't have is minor league talent. What a horrible offseason.

"Jerry Owens played one heck of a center field and created that Scott Podsednik sparkplug type at the top," said Williams of Owens.

by ChicagoPete on Jan 3, 2008 1:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

i think that's misleading

swisher is entering his prime. rowand is on his way to exiting it. and OBP is waaaay more important and rowand won't hold up in that category at all.

IMO they should have done neither.

by larry on Jan 3, 2008 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I was about to say the same

Swisher is on the way up, Rowand on the way down. Plus, have you seen Swisher with a beard? A beard is much grindier than Rowand's half-hearted goatee.

(Also, you're putting Swisher in The Cells launching pad for 81 games a year. That'll only help his numbers).

by HulkSmash on Jan 3, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I was about to say the same

Swisher is on the way up, Rowand on the way down. Plus, have you seen Swisher with a beard? A beard is much grindier than Rowand's half-hearted goatee.

(Also, you're putting Swisher in The Cells launching pad for 81 games a year. That'll only help his numbers).

by HulkSmash on Jan 3, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

Age is a big factor here. You're getting Swisher's 27-31 seasons. You're getting Rowand's 29.5-33.5 seasons. For a lot less money, plus without a NTC.

Also, as the OPS+ difference shows, Swisher has played in a pitchers' park. Rowand has played in hitters' parks.

by BridgeportJoe on Jan 3, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't make either move

But since KW is hell bent on competing in 2008, why not do it a manner that keeps your minor league system intact? We've got surplus cash, not surplus talent.

"Jerry Owens played one heck of a center field and created that Scott Podsednik sparkplug type at the top," said Williams of Owens.

by ChicagoPete on Jan 3, 2008 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

lineup?

ocab
swisher
thome
konerko
dye
pierzynski
fields
quentin
richar

consensus?

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 3, 2008 1:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

swisher LF, quentin CF?

hmmmmmm

"P.S. if Cintron gets traded or released I will buy drinks for the whole board" - tubesox 6/24/07

by mjthor on Jan 3, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

swisher CF

played 50 somethin games there last year.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 3, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

according to yahoo sports

played 60 there.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 3, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

B-R says 59...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/swishni01.shtml

by The Wizard on Jan 3, 2008 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

nice

well either way, we know hes an option out there and can field his position.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 3, 2008 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But can he play there

Mack played something like 60 games in center (06)- we know what that got us

by Brush Back on Jan 3, 2008 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And I think...

that Swisher in center was a lot like Mackowiak in center - someone that was out there because of lack of options. Their two main options out there (Mark Kotsay and Milton Bradley) were hurt most of the year. Swisher did not look good.

Now, Ken Williams might think that Swisher is a viable option out there - I've given up trying to figure him out. But he doesn't look like a centerfielder to me.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 3, 2008 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I remember him playing CF vs. CWS

last year, he made a ridiculous full sprint back-to-home-plate Willie Mays catch against us. I'm sure it was a fluke for some guy who usually plays 1B, but he sure looked like an athlete on that play.

"Jerry Owens played one heck of a center field and created that Scott Podsednik sparkplug type at the top," said Williams of Owens.

by ChicagoPete on Jan 3, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, it was Eric Byrnes style...

but I will take offense in CF over Jerry Owens little bit better defense, noodle arm, and .636 OPS.

by SSH2005 on Jan 3, 2008 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

(Deep breath)

Any rumblings of artificial enhancement? His personality/look reminds me of J. Giambi during his heyday.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Jan 3, 2008 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I doubt he knows how to bunt

Therefore, now way he can play the #2 batter position for Ozzie.

"Jerry Owens played one heck of a center field and created that Scott Podsednik sparkplug type at the top," said Williams of Owens.

by ChicagoPete on Jan 3, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

but

he has a career .361 OBP and had a .380 OBP last year, could be the coveted guy KW was seeking for the top of the lineup.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 3, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Correct, that should be our lineup...

SS Cabrera
CF Swisher
DH Thome
1B Konerko
RF Dye
C Pierzynski
3B Fields
LF Quentin
2B Richar

by SSH2005 on Jan 3, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Won't happen, he can't bunt

"Jerry Owens played one heck of a center field and created that Scott Podsednik sparkplug type at the top," said Williams of Owens.

by ChicagoPete on Jan 3, 2008 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i know you're being facetious

but swisher can bunt.

by larry on Jan 3, 2008 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep.

by SSH2005 on Jan 3, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i'll need a press release on that

Wherever he bats, our offense just got a whole lot more dangerous. ZiPS has him 94 runs created, Bill James 104 - and that's in Oakland. That's 50-60 more runs than Jesse, we just added 6 wins in 2008.

DAMN THE TORPEDOES, FULL SPEED AHEAD - FUCK THE FUTURE!!!!

"Jerry Owens played one heck of a center field and created that Scott Podsednik sparkplug type at the top," said Williams of Owens.

by ChicagoPete on Jan 3, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

dangerous like luis terrero is dangerous?

that you, hawk?

by larry on Jan 3, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No, I mean Jose Contreras dangerous

I tell ya DJ, Jose is the key to 2008. ZiPS has him with a WHIP of 1.44 and an ERA of 4.71, which is definitely a big improvement over last year. I think the pitching staff will pivot on what he does, if he can pull one more great year out of his ass who knows?

"Jerry Owens played one heck of a center field and created that Scott Podsednik sparkplug type at the top," said Williams of Owens.

by ChicagoPete on Jan 3, 2008 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Another option...

Konerko gets dealt, Swisher plays 1B.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 3, 2008 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You'd

have to think about it....but, how much sense does that make considering all the moves he's made this postseadon? It would run completely contrary to everything he's done.

by dantesox on Jan 3, 2008 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So,

I can't fathom him doing that, unless it somehow was for other current major leaguers who fit better than Konerko does now....it's hard for me to imagine who or at what position that would be.

by dantesox on Jan 3, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

it would have to be

something like the podsednik trade where we get major league quality players back that help out in different areas, but i dont see it happening.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 3, 2008 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Or Fields plays first

[eom]

Stretch!

by stevegoz on Jan 3, 2008 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Big Fish Swish!

God help us.

"Each one of my (off-season acquisition)targets has that edge to them, that go-getter attitude. We need it. We will embrace it." - Kenny Williams (11/28/07)

by tailgater on Jan 3, 2008 1:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

To me this trade hinges on

whether Swisher can play an average CF. ZIPS and CHONE both project him to post about an .850-.860 OPS in oakland. Looking at ZIPS's average numbers the cell will boost you about 30 OPS points. So a 27 y.o. CF with an .880-.890 OPS under contract for 5 years is an incredibly valuable commodity. Likely worth the price we paid. A similar corner OF not so much. I guess I'll check his fielding metrics.

by bhoov on Jan 3, 2008 1:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

DLS

I have to think that the trade hinges on whether DLS develops. Pencil Gio in as a 3-4 starter. Six years of .850+ production from a CFer is worth a lot more than that. BUT, if DLS is a stud reliever or better (say a 1-2 starter), it's a really crappy deal.

by BridgeportJoe on Jan 3, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bad day for Sox fans

At least we wont have to deal with Jerry Lee at leadoff anymore.

"I'm not a 6-year-old." -Brian Nikola "Ungrindy" Anderson

by omnipotent grab on Jan 3, 2008 1:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

See above -

Konerko gets dealt, Swisher plays 1B.

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Jan 3, 2008 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

RF, not 1B

No, I'd see Konerko leaving, *DYE* playing first, and Swisher in RF. At least we'd give up fewer triples.

"It's not what you achieve, it's what you overcome. That's what defines your career." - Carlton Fisk

by madopal on Jan 3, 2008 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That would be awful...

Now that we traded our only good prospects left for a really good player in Swisher, it wouldn't make much sense to trade Konerko. Kenny won't do it.

by SSH2005 on Jan 3, 2008 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Konerko...

Not that I'd be happy with it. But in Jim's recent preview of Dye, he mentioned that there was talk of Dye moving to first. So I'd see Dye at first before Swisher.

"3. His position. There hasn't been any word of Dye moving from right field, even though a healthy Carlos Quentin is a far better option. This is a difficult situation to gauge, because there was talk of Dye shifting to first as soon as 2007, which means the Sox must be aware of his limitations. At the same time, Ozzie Guillen likes to give veterans a lot of rope. Dye's not easy to read, either, so there are a lot of factors yet to be determined. Unless he finds younger legs while doing spring cleaning, a move to left should be worked out sooner rather than later."

"It's not what you achieve, it's what you overcome. That's what defines your career." - Carlton Fisk

by madopal on Jan 3, 2008 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ed

Well, he better be good for about .280-45-120. That's the only way this trade doesn't look like complete and total fucking robbery.

We have NOTHING in our system now. Nothing. We couldn't even cobble together 10 guys to make up a "best of the farm system" list.

by ginandtacos on Jan 3, 2008 1:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

It's rough

Poreda is our only prospect remaining that has true upside.
Down to others like Egbert, Shelby, Broadway, McCullouch, Omogrosso, Ely, Marrero, Jose Martinez. None of those would be considered major prospects... certainly not top 100 guys, but they're in our top 10 now I presume.

by Bull Pain on Jan 3, 2008 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

From a "fanboy" perspective...

Swisher is a player I'm going to love having on the Sox. And I like that the Sox have some good young talent in the lineup.

I just don't like the cost of it. I'll say that I'm lukewarm on the deal -- the "Highway Robbery" comment in the post isn't mine, I'd guess that's wiz'. If you take the TINSTAAPP point of view, I'd say the Sox are looking pretty good here. Hell, if you trust the talking-head over at Soxtalk (Bureau), the Sox seem to make out pretty well in this -- Gio is nothing more than a backend starter and DLS is a great reliever. He'd probably say the guy the Sox will regret giving up the most is Sweeney, who is looking at a make-or-break season in 2008.

by CWSKeith on Jan 3, 2008 2:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

eyes rolling

yeah. they guy we're most likely to regret giving up is sweeney. good one.

by larry on Jan 3, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep, Sweeney is the throw-in trash in this deal.

by SSH2005 on Jan 3, 2008 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yes

the "Highway Robbery" comment is mine, I'll make it clear...

by The Wizard on Jan 3, 2008 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Keith Law

likes the trade for the Sox.....says the key is DLS, WHO HE SAYS MUST COME UP WITH A THIRD PITCH....AND i KNOW HE'S NEVER LIKED gIO....HE SEEES HIMAS A 3 OR 4 AT BEST....I FEEL A LITTLE BETTER....STILL WOULDN'T HAVE DONE IT THOUGH.

by dantesox on Jan 3, 2008 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

One more thing....

I think this is also an indication of how much Kenny believes in Danks and Floyd, and, to a lesser extent, perhaps guys like Haeger and Broadway....and, even further down the line, Aaron Poreda.

by dantesox on Jan 3, 2008 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

BUT I STILL DON'T MAKE THIS TRADE.

by dantesox on Jan 3, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No worries, dudes.

Steve Stone likes this trade. And he's smart enough to be our bi-monthly back-up radio announcer!

Out-underacheiving the other guy.

by defensive indifference on Jan 3, 2008 2:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Also...

www.nickswisher.net

Out-underacheiving the other guy.

by defensive indifference on Jan 3, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

switch hitter!!!

that gives us WAY more flexibility! who needs JO's when you can get that much!

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 3, 2008 2:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

This is the worst trade of the year

I'm so fuckin pissed off right now!

Swisher?! Unless they trade Crede for a nice young arm, this deal sucks ass!

Why give up Gio!?!?

He was a projected started soon!

AIM : Option27

by Option27 on Jan 3, 2008 2:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Grinder and "Chicago Tough"

"We feel we really improved the integrity of our ballclub and got a proven Major Leaguer that Chicago fans will appreciate because of his grinding abilities and the way that he plays, which can be summed up as "Chicago Tough."

---Kenny (aka as taken to the bank by Beane more times than Fields strikes out).

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 3, 2008 2:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

If he hadn't hit 35 HR in 2006

I'd be willing to give him the monicker "Scraptacular."

"It's not what you achieve, it's what you overcome. That's what defines your career." - Carlton Fisk

by madopal on Jan 3, 2008 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Rowand...

Swisher even wears his number. Goatee & everything. Think Kenny planned that?

"It's not what you achieve, it's what you overcome. That's what defines your career." - Carlton Fisk

by madopal on Jan 3, 2008 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Swisher

Will be AJ's new buddy. AJ had a down year last year because his buddy Rowand was in Phil. and his other little buddy, Crede had a back ache.

Alright - the Grinders are back!!

(worst trade Kenny has done since trading Foulke for Billy Koch)

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 3, 2008 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i knew this was going to happen: sickels' list

Gio Gonzalez, LHP, Grade B+ (ranks second on Oakland list)

Fautino De Los Santos, RHP, Grade B+ (ranks third on Oakland list)

Aaron Poreda, LHP, Grade B+

Jack Egbert, RHP, Grade B- (A major sleeper)

Ryan Sweeney, OF, Grade C+ (I don't think his power is going to develop. Ranks 12th on Oakland list)

Lance Broadway, RHP, Grade C+

Nevin Griffith, RHP, Grade C+ (great ceiling, needs polish)

John Ely, RHP, Grade C+

Kyle McCulloch, RHP, Grade C+

Charlie Haeger, RHP, Grade C+

John Shelby, 2B, Grade C+

Jimmy Gallagher, OF, Grade C+

Jose Martinez, OF, Grade C+

Fernando Hernandez, RHP, Grade C+

Oneli Perez, RHP, Grade C+

Brian Omogrosso, RHP, Grade C+

Ehren Wasserman, RHP, Grade C (solid role pitcher)

Christian Marrero, 1B, Grade C

Clayton Richard, LHP, Grade C

Leroy Hunt, RHP, Grade C

by larry on Jan 3, 2008 2:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

link

http://www.minorleagueball.com/story/2008/1/3/153310/6909

by larry on Jan 3, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, I go to lunch and we lose

our farm system.

This is consistent with KW's previous moves, right? Always use your prospects to get major league talent. At least it shows he's still in there swinging. I think most of us thought the large deals were done - at least I did, and I never thought he'd deal all 3 in the same trade (Gio, once traded before, has always been expendable). Can't question the fire, just the wisdom of the strategy. (Did JR just get diagnosed with cancer or something? Burning the farm down for 2008 seems imprudent unless we are going out in a mushroom cloud, on our shield, one way or the other.)

So we'll be entertaining in 2008, with spit and baling wire holding our ML roster together, with the likes of Broadway/Egbert/Wasserman ready to step up in a heartbeat. (And who will fill in at at a position if necessary? Can anyone hit?) That surely fills me with confidence.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Jan 3, 2008 2:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

The 2008 Sox are now significantly better

with this trade, but I know that many of you on SSS don't care about that (thinking the season is already lost to the Tigers and the Indians). You might be right, but KW also has to operate on a business level that essentially requires him to field a team that can compete or else fear a huge attendance drop off (and with it $$ to remain competitive). We gave up top prosepcts, but when all is said and done, they are prospects. We've all seen too many "can't miss prospects" miss. I remember the uproar when we traded Miguel Olivo. I hope Gio has a great career, but who knows? I know it's easy to curse the GM and speak in absolutes on blogs, but there are no absolutes in this business. The Sox now have a top notch ballplayer now who knows how to get on base (what we've all been wanting), and he's entering his prime baseball playing years. Whether or not the price is too high only time will tell. I'm looking forward to seeing Nick in a Sox uniform (and in a hitters ballpark). If the team doesn't click, guess what -- you can trade him for some top prospects! Go Sox.

by palehose67 on Jan 3, 2008 2:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I agree

Sox are definitely much better in 2008, this was an addition by subtraction move - getting Owens out of the lineup is huge.

"Jerry Owens played one heck of a center field and created that Scott Podsednik sparkplug type at the top," said Williams of Owens.

by ChicagoPete on Jan 3, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, let's churn the team if click = 0

The devil you know looks good, though I think we who root for the Sox like the prospect of "next year" if "this year" gets shot down in flames. We had minimal conversation after we figured out we had nos shot last season, but the prospect of prospects kept up lots of interest (see the wiz' diaries next to this post - and, by the way wiz, I think you might officially eliminate those diaries for now, as there is no one to follow).

Sure, this might work out. Jamie Lynn Spears as a mother might work out too, but it sure seems iffy...

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Jan 3, 2008 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

HUH?

You drinking the punch again? "Top Notch Ballplayer" - who do you speak of??

Nick Swisher is not a top notch ballplayer, he is an above average player who had a huge drop in production in 2007.

We traded 3 of our top 5 prospects for an above average player who will not be able to play the OF and can only play 1B with any respectability and we currently have two 1B on the team in Konerko and Thome.

This trade was a joke and further affirmation that Kenny is the reason the farm system sucks, not the fall guy, Duane Schaefer. This trade will hurt for years to come...it is a very very very sad day for me.

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 3, 2008 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

disagree

Wouldn't say that he had a huge drop in 2007. He was down in runs and RBI, both of which are a function of the players in front and behind you to a large degree. He was down in HR's 35 to 22, but up in doubles, 36 to 24. OBP went up, slightly, OPS+ went up slightly. Strikeouts down, walks up every so slightly.

A lot of those doubles he hit in Oakland are going to turn into HR's in the Cell.

by southsideirish on Jan 3, 2008 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What are you talking about?

Significantly down? Why cuz he hit less homers out in Oakland? His OPS+ the last 2 years is 125, 127.

The defensive matrix I saw he was above avg defensively in the corners. And okay to a little below avg in CF and 1B.

You dont like the trade, fine but stop acting like you have this iron clad proof its a win either way.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jan 3, 2008 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, I guess I'm drinking the punch.

I'd like to think that I simply have a reasoned, different opinion (with which I expect many of you to disagree). I forgot that "A" prospects always turn into superstars in the big leagues (I enjoy how we fall in love with our own prospects). I consider a guy who has an execllent ability to get on base, hits for power, is entering his prime baseball years and is signed to a very reasonable contract to be top notch. Obviously, I'm crazy. And like I said, if the team doesn't click at some point, you can trade him (and that attractive contract) for some top prospects.

by palehose67 on Jan 3, 2008 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

starting to warm up on the trade

people seem to be bringing up some good points, and how many of our sox prospects have actually turned out into good major league contributors over the last 5 or so years?? someone help me out with this, seriously, all i can think of is chris young, Crede, and even go as far back as buehrle. Jenks has turned out nicely, do we credit ourselves with that turn around. who else has really panned out??

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 3, 2008 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What is this huge dropoff by Swisher...

that you speak of?

2006: .865 OPS / 125 OPS+
2007: .836 OPS / 127 OPS+

by SSH2005 on Jan 3, 2008 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You guys are starting to like this trade....

His HR's dropped significantly, so did his Runs and RBI's.

You guys say it is because of the lineup around him, but that is also the reason his OBP is high. He didn't have much of a lineup around him in Oakland, thus contributing to his walks as pitchers pitched around him.

Also, he hit into 13 double plays last year....the fleet Thome only hit into 10.

Speaking of which, look at the WS lineup now...lots of rally killers with our K's and double plays.

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 3, 2008 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Since when

is speed the indicator of not grounding into double plays? Is Thome "speedier" than Matt Holliday (23), Derek Jeter (21), Michael Young (21), Robinson Cano (19), A-Rod (15), or David Wright (14), to name a few?

Also, Swisher's 13 DP was tied for 85th most in MLB, along with losers such as Bonds, Aramis Ramirez, Hawpe, Ryan Howard, and Ryan Braun.

"First off everyone knows me as 'the champ' so sing the champ is hear when you see me."

by Toonderstrook on Jan 3, 2008 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure, leave it to the New Left Coaster

to stick up for the (former) "A" and mention Bonds in the same paragraph.

Seriously, Nick is starting to grow on me. Reasons:

The name. Nick! From "The Sure Thing": "Nick's your buddy! You can trust a guy named Nick! Nick would'nt mind if you threw up in his car! Nick!" (And my grandfather and uncle were named Nick, so it has a great ring to it.) "Aaron" was always a name that made me think of 18th-century politics and duelling.
The image. Grindy, cocky (some would say arrogant), Caucasian (yes, I said it), a "grinder. I can picture AJ, Nick, and Crede attending wrestling matches together. He's a younger Rowand in that regard.
The performance. We wanted an experienced, high(er) OPS person who could flash some leather and (maybe) not smash into walls. Doesn't seem injury-prone, takes a pitch on occasion, switch-hitting, with power. He's a more consistent, powerful, cheaper Rowand.

So he'll spell Jer-bear in CF for 1/3 of the season, if necessary. He's a good corner OF and fits what we have been looking for. (Did we have to severely mortgage the future to get him? Looks like it.)

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Jan 3, 2008 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not sticking up for him.

Just wondering how a guy who has hit into 3 more double plays over the last two seasons than Jimmy Rollins becomes a rally killer, and how Thome only hitting into 10 (less than Rollins) means anything.

"First off everyone knows me as 'the champ' so sing the champ is hear when you see me."

by Toonderstrook on Jan 3, 2008 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Just yanking your chain, bro

What's your take on this deal?

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Jan 3, 2008 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Fold...

I like having Swisher, but not in the context of this deal. Right now my opinion is being colored by (a) what I believe is the faulty premise that the Sox are built to contend in '08, (b) the fact that this happened only after Kenny's plans A-ZZZZZ failed, and (c) the fact that the farm system is now completely bare AND was stripped even further to "make a run" in '08. I think Kenny started this offseason with the wrong goals, and that makes this deal a bummer to me.

"First off everyone knows me as 'the champ' so sing the champ is hear when you see me."

by Toonderstrook on Jan 3, 2008 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Reason #1

Can we throw in Nick from Family Ties as well? Who's cooler than that guy? Is it not coincidence that the two look like, and share the same name? Aaaaay!

by HulkSmash on Jan 3, 2008 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Dangly earring and all.

"First off everyone knows me as 'the champ' so sing the champ is hear when you see me."

by Toonderstrook on Jan 3, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

wouldn't

I are a colleje grajit.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Jan 3, 2008 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This is not the worst trade of the year

Nor is it highway robbery. Would I have done the deal. No. But this homerism of Gio and Fautino being the next Johan and Riveria is sickening. Yes I do think they will be good but do we really know?

Swisher is a good YOUNG ball player signed to a reasonable contract. Beane wasnt going to give him away for free. Most people think the Sox have no chance of competing next year. That is the real issue. KW (for better or most think worst) doesnt.

The trade itself most definitely adds wins to the Sox total. It doesnt put them into a bad financial situation. Maybe hes not done yet. If Sox were to get to 87-88 wins and "compete" that does probably accomplish some of the outward apperance concerns and fill the park. If people continue to come maybe that gives them an opportunity to open the wallet next year.

Im not saying its the best plan, but it is a plan. Carlos and Nick are a decent starting point for the future OF.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jan 3, 2008 2:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Kenny is going for it this year

Why trade for Cabrera who has 1year left on his contract?

All of you who think Swisher is an outfielder are kidding yourselves - he is not a good defense outfielder and Beane knew it. Swisher will eventually take over 1B in a year or two if there is anyway Kenny can trade Konerko.

Kenny gave up too much. Period.

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 3, 2008 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

step off the ledge

and relax. swisher can play the corner OF's easily. what are you using as a reference? swisher is more than just a 1B/DH.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 3, 2008 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, period.

Other opinons not welcome.

by palehose67 on Jan 3, 2008 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree, TDogg

I'm not sure if I like this deal or not. My snap reaction is muddled as of this moment. But maybe some of us should take a step back and assess this situation.

Let's look at what we got: Swisher fill our biggest hole (CF) and will likely continue to improve as he enters his prime and spend half his seasons in the cell. And, we have him for five years, which bodes well for the future.

What we lost: Sweeney, of course, seems to be a long shot to be an everyday, productive MLB player. Won't be missed. Gio is a guy who is injury prone and been traded four times now. DLS projects, as many have said, to be a great reliver/mid rotation starter. Maybe. He still has rungs to climb on the ladder.

I understand the frustration in gutting the farm system, but what does the farm produce? Young, major league players. Well, that's what we got in Swisher--a young player without the question marks of DLS or Gio. Only time will tell, I suppose.

by HulkSmash on Jan 3, 2008 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

By the way...

I mainly trying to spread some optimism here. Between this trade and the Iowa caucus, this is a tense day!

by HulkSmash on Jan 3, 2008 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Swisher on the corner

We'll see Owens and Quentin platoon in center - that's my prediction. (Can't leave that leadoff spark sitting on the bench)

by Brush Back on Jan 3, 2008 2:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And...

Swisher is not a center fielder. I hope Kenny Williams knew that when he traded for him.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 3, 2008 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He played 50 games there last season, right?

Maybe Quentin can be moved or something. Or Swisher can be given a shot. Can it be much worse than Owens?

by HulkSmash on Jan 3, 2008 2:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He did play there...

but only because their first two center fielders were hurt. He's better than Rob Mackowiak, but not by much.

Swisher in center and Dye in right would mean lots and lots of triples by the opposition.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 3, 2008 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Another reason Dye

should be moved to LF.

by HulkSmash on Jan 3, 2008 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

we don't know

but the problem is that we also don't have anyone in our minor league system who really looks like they could be a legit major league starter. poreda is nice but is still a big question mark. egbert is nice but he probably isn't more than back of the rotation fodder. young, good, cost-controlled pitching is the name of the game these days. and we just gave up our best (no, not certain) hopes for that when guys like javy and jose and so on go on their merry way. we now have nothing in the cupboard. this is exactly the sort of trade most of us feared. it wasn't the worst case because swisher has some great stuff about him but this is not good for the organization, based on what we know right now.

by larry on Jan 3, 2008 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What we dont know Larry

Is how much money they will spend moving forward. I think that makes a world of difference. If the Sox close up shop and dont spend I will tend to agree more with you. If they move some cash. Then this can work. The team is adding some young talent and there are some pieces there to replenish some younger talent.

I feel a helluva lot better its not Coco Crisp. Swisher could go either way. He could continue to progress as a good above avg player or he could turn into a monster at the Cell.

I know his 3 games there last year were good, anybody have his career numbers? I know its a small sample.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jan 3, 2008 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

nICELY SAID. Very risky.

by dantesox on Jan 3, 2008 3:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well said, Larry

More or less what I was thinking.

Swisher is a good all around player, but not someone for whom I would trade the farm, and thus prospects of future competitive teams. In addition, with JD's defensive deficiencies, I would prefer a CF with more range.

Time will tell whether this was a wise trade, but I wouldn't have made the deal.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

by rhythm on Jan 3, 2008 3:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It doesn't make sense...

for a team that's always talking about "pitching and defense" -- and for a team that won a title based on excellent pitching and defense -- to go into the year with Quentin or Swisher in CF. And since I don't think Kenny is stupid enough to make the Quentin trade and then immediately replace him with Swisher, I'd have to think we're going to see Dye or Konerko traded -- maybe Konerko for a real CFer (among other pieces), moving Swisher to first?

by CWSKeith on Jan 3, 2008 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's premature to say the writing's on the wall...

But a Konerko deal seems like a strong possibility now. I have no idea for who or where, but it seems almost logical at this point.

by HulkSmash on Jan 3, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

larry

you really called it, man and you had me vaguely convinced, but i guess after the carlos quentin deal, i thought all the surprises were in the bag. not so much, evidently.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 3, 2008 4:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

swisher

...is another former first round pick. KW likes those type of guys.

I don't like giving up DLS and Gio-- but they are prospects. I don't think we heard the Tiger fans howl too much when they emptied out their farm system for Cabrerra.

Think of how many top prospects we're given up that haven't done jack in the bigs.

I also agree-- we're getting this guy in his prime years-- and in Chicago he could put up some serious numbers.

Swisher played more innings in CF than anywhere else last year. But will he need a late inning caddy?

The more I think about this trade, the more I like it. He gets on base, he plays hard, he hits for power. He's coming into his prime. Getting him gets Owens out of the lineup (at least out of leadoff), gets Fields down in the order.

Who runs better-- Fields or Swisher?

Even if DLS and Gio turn into studs, this could be a trade that helps both clubs.

by ruffster on Jan 3, 2008 2:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Swisher probably runs better than Fields...

but who cares? It's all about Swisher's OBP and SLG. He never got a chance to run for the A's anyways.

by SSH2005 on Jan 3, 2008 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If Swisher is in CF

The right side of the OF is going to be UGLY. I bet the Sox give up at least 3 inside-the-park HR to lefties.

by BridgeportJoe on Jan 3, 2008 3:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

You know...

...examined just the trade by itself, it's certainly a reasonable deal. It's the surrounding circumstances that make it look bad.

As previously mentioned by everyone above:

a) The already sparse farm system is now completely barren, and our major league level depth is pretty low. Counting a lot on Danks & Floyd...and who the hell is first in line in case of injury? Haeger?

b) While it makes us a better club in '08, we're still unlikely to really compete in the AL Central. It would probably take even more luck than we got in 2005...

Additional factors that don't help the trade:

c) Our hitting coach. Yeah, nothing like Greg Walker to help out the young hitters. I don't have the stats, but from my fantasy ownership of him I recall Swisher having some very rough months in 2007, and you know Walker isn't going to help when he falls into a slump.

d) Ozzie's love of speed/leadoff guys. I'm having a very hard time picturing Owens not eating into Quentin's playing time. Unfortunately, Ozzie is going to want speed somewhere, & Quentin really hasn't proven much in the majors, so he'll be the first in line to the bench.

--------------------------
http://hiphopnerd.com

by hiphopnerd on Jan 3, 2008 3:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

dropping knowledge

Swisher's pitch type data

He's actually a much better hitter against LHP, which you don't see much from lefties.. He doesn't hit for power from that side, but makes much more consistent contact and walks at a higher rate. OPSed about 900 vs. LHP each of the last two years.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jan 3, 2008 3:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

ambedextrious

switch hitter.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 3, 2008 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

although

not sure if being able to hit a baseball from both sides of the plate qualifies you as being ambidextrous. either way, you get the point.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 3, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Stats

Ok, looking at Swisher's stats in CF last year, if we compare him to Jerry Owens:

Player GP E FP RFg RF9 Owens 88 2 .991 2.43 2.67 Swisher 59 2 .986 2.37 2.62

Point is, can he play CF? Clearly. Is he good? Not particularly. I can't find any info on Baseball Reference's stats (like the differences between RFg and RF9), but from the league leader pages, good CF's have a RF around 3. We could be looking at having a few more triples allowed with him in CF.

He can outhit Owens, tho, and he likes hitting in The Cell. He had a 148 tOPS+ at our yard last year.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=swishni01

"It's not what you achieve, it's what you overcome. That's what defines your career." - Carlton Fisk

by madopal on Jan 3, 2008 3:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Me

I can play CF, but am I good - not particularly.

Try him in LF and try Quintin in CF - if it works out, great, if not then we will probably out of it by June anyways and then it is time to cut bait. This means:

Trade Konerko for prospects
Trade Jenks for prospects
Trade Cabrera for prospects
Move Swisher to 1B
Try to get a CF'er again in 2009.

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 3, 2008 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Konerko

Is a 5 and 10 guy in May...so trading him midseason doesn't work.

Nevermind.

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 3, 2008 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Range factor...

doesn't tell you much if anything. Swisher is not a good center fielder.

Don't get me wrong, I love his bat, but he's not the answer in center. I hope Williams understands that.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 3, 2008 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Kenny says

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to compete with us for the next 10 years."

by GhostOfRooney on Jan 3, 2008 3:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

brilliant!

by The Wizard on Jan 3, 2008 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I put on my sig!

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to compete with us for the next 10 years." -- Kenny Williams (via GhostOfRooney)

by The Wizard on Jan 4, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Seriosly, if this 2008 team doesn't work out,

I can see the truck being backed-up in mid-2008 and some players being moved for good, young talent. But I like the possibility (as slim as many of you think it may be) of this team being able to compete now in 2008. On a slightly different note, as much as we discuss all the different tarde rumors on this site, once again a KW trade springs out of nowhere. Am I mistaken on this point? Did anyone hear anything about this trade until it happened?

by palehose67 on Jan 3, 2008 3:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Well lets look at that for a second

Konerko becomes a 5 and 10 guy in May so if you want to move him on your terms you move him now.
Crede will provide nothing more than tinder on the fire at the break.
Dye is just another log.
Outside of that, there really is nothing left to move to get anything back.

Vazquez? Buerhle has no trade protection this year.

by southsideirish71 on Jan 3, 2008 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Vasquez. Jenks. Dye.

Konerko (he would go to a contender, and contenders would be the only ones interested). Yes, those were the players I had in mind. For God's sake, Crede better be traded before the start of the year!

by palehose67 on Jan 3, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess KW's next move

is to trade Poreda and Egbert for Frank Catalanato. This reminds of when he gave up Fogg and Wells for Todd Richie when just one or the other should have been enough. Gotta hope now that DLS and Gia don't pan out because Swisher is a decent, not grerat, player.

by spadog on Jan 3, 2008 3:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Fog and Wells? Who?

Neither one has done anything worth a damn, unless you consider being inconsistent with a 5 ERA in the NL AKA AAAA, so that's a pretty lousy argument there.

by Shakey912 on Jan 3, 2008 4:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Is Fog (sp.) and Wells a new hot spot

on the Near North Side? Or is the Wells from Ida B. Wells days?

It's been awhile since I've been to the city.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Jan 3, 2008 5:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's just dumb

Wells was an excellent pitcher in 2002 and 2003 before he hurt his arm. If the Sox had Wells in 2003 they very well could have won the division. That was a terrible trade. It may have cost the Sox a flag.

by hitlesswonder on Jan 3, 2008 8:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm going to humbly suggest Williams be fired

That's a stomach-turning trade. Time to stock up on beer for the summer. And the summer after that. And the summer after that...

by hitlesswonder on Jan 3, 2008 3:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

He will be, before 2009.

Why didn't we just stick with Owens...why gut the farm for Swisher?

For Cabrera, yes. For Swisher...oh no. Puke

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 3, 2008 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm with you

and last week I questioned you when you suggested kenny will trade dls...

by The Wizard on Jan 3, 2008 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If this season doesn't work out

I feel sorry for the next GM - it will be like the Bulls all over again.

by Brush Back on Jan 3, 2008 3:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Not to mention

the agony us fans will have...

by Brush Back on Jan 3, 2008 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Gio/Dls.

Name me the last home-grown pitcher since buehrle that did anything..Kw had to improve the 2008 club.Give it a chance..only god knows what these guy's from MINOR'S WILL DO!!!Swisher is a fine player and will be a better hitter in the cell.

by JenksDaMan45 on Jan 3, 2008 3:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

right

our minors have sucked, joe crede, chris young so far, fields so far, buehrle, who else have we produced that has been good? jenks? even though he came from the angels?

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 3, 2008 3:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

obviously

im referencing the last 5 or so years, so dont bring harold baines, frank thomas or robin ventura into this!

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 3, 2008 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

crap

i forgot about maggs, c lee and rowand. all pretty good players.... but i guess we havent had that many pitching prospects, have we?

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 3, 2008 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Those were Schueler picks

So was Buehrle and Crede.

I am thinking Kenny has not drafted a single player as GM that has made it to the major league club??

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 3, 2008 3:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He drafted Josh Fields.

And -

Andy Gonzalez
Donny Lucy
Boone Logan
Charlie Haeger
Lance Broadway

That's the guys I could find on the 2007 roster.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 3, 2008 3:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

maybe you're right

when I consider the Sox ability to draft and develope players maybe it is good to dump them and watch them flop else where.

by spadog on Jan 3, 2008 3:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

re: maybe you're right

i was just going to say - what top prospects have panned out for sox recently? it seems like all have been flops.

maybe sox realize that they have done of horrible job of drafting and talent eval and its time to get what they can for somewhat proven major leaguers before its too late

by The Scoper on Jan 3, 2008 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I see reason is on vacation again

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jan 3, 2008 3:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around this

Last winter, coming off a 90 win season, KW trades Garcia and MacCarthy for four prospects. This winter, coming off a 90 loss season, KW trades three top prospects for one major leaguer and swaps Garland for a one year rental. Where's the plan here? This smacks of downright Cubbishness, just dog paddling from one season to the next.

"Jerry Owens played one heck of a center field and created that Scott Podsednik sparkplug type at the top," said Williams of Owens.

by ChicagoPete on Jan 3, 2008 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It strikes me as...

Ken Williams saying, "I'm going to make one big move this winter, come hell or high water, whether it makes sense or not."

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 3, 2008 4:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

when does

Crede get traded to the dodgers or Angels? Doesn't make sense to have 4 OF's if you count Fields, or 2 3b's, Kenny's got another move coming, and I'll give this trade time, I really can care less about sweeny he hit well in one summer, and since then has been an above average borchard, the other two maybe good pitchers, but neither is a johan, or even a buerhle in my mind, we always tend to overvalue prospects in chicago a bit.

Corey Patterson and Pie on the North the past few years,
and I've been hearing how tricky Haegar is for years even from sox-hater Rob Neyer.

Still shocked Keith Law likes the move.

by tubesox on Jan 3, 2008 4:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

i'm thirsty

by larry on Jan 3, 2008 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow.

Just.

Wow.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 3, 2008 4:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Prospects vs. Proven players

What's not to like about this trade? We're overloaded at OF and Sweeney was never going to make it. The rotation is set for this season and more, and other capable P's such as Broadway and Egbert are more MLB ready that Gio and DLS. Would you rather have 10 Mil more a season locked up in an overrated CF like Hunter who has peaked likely or a player locked up for 4 years w/an option for 5 at a avg. of a reasonable 5 Mil entering his prime? Prospects are just that, prospects.

by Shakey912 on Jan 3, 2008 4:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

re

We're overloaded at OF

any decent CFers on your overloaded outfield?

other capable P's such as Broadway

jaryd, is that you?

by The Wizard on Jan 3, 2008 6:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

decent CFers?

surely you jest. one brian nikola anderson perchance?

by larry on Jan 3, 2008 6:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah but CF?

Really?

I mean...

really?

I'd be able to accept him as a corner outfielder if we hadn't acquired CQ.

I don't know...

At first I was furious. I've since calmed down quite a bit, and I think I'll just wait and see what more comes of this.

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Jan 3, 2008 4:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I'm not certain he can't play CF

There simply isn't enough data to make a conclusion. What we do know from advanced metrics is that he is an excellent RF. He should be put out there for the entirety of Spring training.

If he can play an average CF with an .880-.920 OPS for the next 5 years (or heck even the first 3 years, followed by excellent corner OF defense the last 2 years) then I think this is a win for KW. If not he's gonna have to blowup into a .950+ guy for it to be a win.

But make no mistake, this guy is really good. He's somewhat underrated because of his home park, similar to Buerhle in the cell.

by bhoov on Jan 3, 2008 5:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Which is my point

Some of these comparisions I see are ridiculous. (Richie Trade example). Swisher is a good young ball player at the right age. Moving to a favorable situation. The move also helps the big 3. It will be nice to have someone on base once in a while. To have some one work a count and have the pitcher do a little work.

This could go in several directions. Again Im not calling it a "win" either way because there are different goals. As pointed out earlier it really depends on your starting premise. It will depend on the ending roster. Which most likely is still not finished. How many times have I read on here the absolutes on who will be on the team and starting in the OF?

The move did accomplish one thing though. In my little world it pushes me to go ahead and "get" my tickets. Im at least convinced I'll see real baseball. That of course is just me, but I probably represent a decent % of the population.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jan 3, 2008 5:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Gio Gonzalez is great trade bait

I think this guy has been a great asset as trade bait.
First he is an important part of the trade where we get Thome.
Then we get him back in the Freddy Garcia trade.
Then he is an important part of the trade getting Swisher.
So the same guy, who has no major league experience, has helped to get us Thome and Swisher.
I think KW will do another trade and get him back just to trade him again for another major leaguer!

by bingodog on Jan 3, 2008 5:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I know this deal

basically cleared out our farm system, and we all agree that the Sox need quality minor leaguers to consistently compete in the AL, but am I the only one who wasn't exactly sold on our farm system's ability to produce quality players? What I mean to say is, isn't it possible that these guys we just gave up are no more than the next in line to disappoint in the majors? We don't exactly churn out solid baseball players. Furthermore, I think Swisher could be on the brink of being an All-Star year in, year out.

I hate Illinois Nazis.

by MarketMaker on Jan 3, 2008 5:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

The world according to KW:

General manager Ken Williams said Chicago's initial plan is to play Swisher mostly in center field, unless Jerry Owens -- who had the job at the end of last season -- has an impressive spring. That would mean Swisher seeing more time in left field. He can also spell Paul Konerko at first.

"I did not plan on paying this type of price, but I also did not plan on getting this type of player," Williams said. "Swisher was not a player on the market. Billy Beane did not want to move him. We had to make it attractive enough where they would engage in conversation."

Swisher's outgoing personality, grind-it-out style and high on-base percentage is just what the White Sox were looking for, Williams added.

"Everything that I've heard about Nick from a variety of sources, whether it be on the field or off the field, is that this guy fits in and fits in perfectly with what we are trying to do," Williams said.

On the other hand, Billy Beane has accepted rebuilding and says:

"Our status quo as we stood going into the season was mediocrity at best. That's my opinion. If anything we're taking a step back with the idea we have a chance to build something very good for a long time. ... The cost of indecision for us probably would be a bigger mistake."

"First off everyone knows me as 'the champ' so sing the champ is hear when you see me."

by Toonderstrook on Jan 3, 2008 5:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Ugh.

Swisher in CF + Dye in RF = disaster on defense. Look for the staff ERA to skyrocket.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 3, 2008 5:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I really like this trade...

*ducks*

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 3, 2008 5:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I'm with you

If Ozzie could get over himself and let Nick bat leadoff we could be onto something. The sox have a outside chance at the playoffs in '08; much like '05. No one could see Scott Podsednik being great for half a season and the rotation and bullpen being nails. Obviously the breaks are going to have to go our way but competing for the central isn't out of the question. I like the fact that we have him for 5 years, there is a punchers chance we compete next year but there is a decent chance Swisher could be on the next squad when the sox compete, or moved for nice pieces.

by beautox on Jan 3, 2008 6:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm surprised at all the negativity

You have to give up something to get something. Swisher is a top-tier offensive corner outfielder signed well below market rate for the next five years and he's just about to enter his prime. KW clearly takes advantage of opportunities to exchange established major league talent for potential and I think this deal was worth it. His tendency has only burned us once in the past and I don't know how you could question that move too much after winning a World Series. This does put a lot of pressure on our amateur player scouts now as our system is barren.

by 3E8 on Jan 3, 2008 6:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

That's the problem...

Corner outfielder that ain't in a corner.

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Jan 3, 2008 8:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

now now..

No need to fret, we've got your boy alexi ramirez waiting in the wings.. (haha)

Man this sure is an interesting team if nothing else. With all the negative responses for them so far, here's the tip of a rosey scenario:

Going forward I'd love to flip thome or konerko and put dye at first/dh as pointed out or even trade thome AND konerko for young talent, moving dye and fields to dh/and first respectively. keeping crede, swisher/quentin in right with ramirez/owens/ and swisher sometimes spelling them in center.. assuming the sox would get young talent in those deals and not bad/under-performing contracts back in a deal ( which they hardly ever take on), they should get some of that flexibility back in order to reload for more talent in 2009.

It's all about the SOX baby! www.firestarclothing.com

by Eternalkonflict on Jan 3, 2008 9:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

hmm

Not bad, though I expect Ramirez to hang out in Charlotte for the better part of this year and come up next season to replace the dearly departed Cabrerra.

I also leave Fields at third and stick Dye or Swisher at first instead.

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Jan 3, 2008 10:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs