The Count

by The Wizard on Jan 31, 2008 2:03 PM CST in News Comment 89 comments

Jim previews Jose's 2008 performance and points to the differences among the various projection systems (I added his 2006 and 2007 seasons):

Projection	G	IP	W-L	ERA	H	R	ER	HR	K	BB	WHIP	K/9	BB/9	K/BB	HR/9	AVG	BABIP
2006	30	196	13-9	4.27	194	101	93	20	134	55	1.27	6.15	2.53	2.44	0.92	.260	.294
2007	32	189	10-17	5.67	232	134	117	21	113	62	1.56	5.38	2.95	1.82	1.00	.303	.334
Bill James	31	196	10-12	4.27	200			23	141	70	1.38	6.47	3.21	2.01	1.06	.266	.301
CHONE		195		4.75	213	112	103	24	119	66	1.43	5.49	3.05	1.80	1.11	.279	.305
Marcel		173	10-11	4.84	190	104	93	19	115	60	1.45	5.98	3.12	1.92	0.99	.280	.314
ZiPS	28	175	11-11	4.73	194		92	20	96	58
SoxMachine	28	175	8-13	5.31	199			18	119	52	1.43

What's your 2008 projections?

***** In other news,

The Sox announced the 2008 Spring Training Broadcast Schedule.
Kevin Goldstein published his 2008 Top 100 prospects list (Goldstein's chat on his Top 100).
Not to be outdone, Keith Law also introduces his top 100 prospects. Noticeably absent, Gio Gonzalez, unless I'm blind.
Ben Bradler published Part 2 of his Fastball Speed study.
Tango created a Sabermetric Wiki.

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Comments

id be elated with

bill james' projections for contreras.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 31, 2008 2:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

kenny too!

by The Wizard on Jan 31, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you'll notice the salient difference

between the projections: K, both rate and overall. considering the last two years he had 134 and 113 (in similar innings), it is quite frankly ridiculous to suggest he's going to have 141. the james projection is obviously weighting his 2005 season far too much. not going to happen.

by larry on Jan 31, 2008 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

spot on, of course.

even his '05 K rate was a decline from '04, which was a decline from '03.

"On the run from Johnny Law...ain't no trip to Cleveland."

by Toonderstrook on Jan 31, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow.

I didn't know he had such a high BABIP last year. That can explain the favorable projections for '08.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 31, 2008 5:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i think they're more looking at his past

and computing that he just can't really be that bad. high BABIP can mean unlucky. it can also mean he's throwing BP.

by larry on Jan 31, 2008 5:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Goldstein's chat

Nothing terribly interesting (in the White Sox sense), but here's one:

Chris (Chicago): Is Aaron Poreda the only hope White Sox fans have?

Kevin Goldstein: Even though he's pretty high on their prospect list, and would be a sleeper in other systems -- I really do kind of have a feeling about John Shelby. Call me crazy.

More love for Shelby. If he hits as well as he did last year, I'd imagine he'll be in the discussion for next year's Top 100.

Since Gio is gone, my 'one prospect man-love' is completely on Shelby, so even the slightest mention will be posted (by me).

Goldstein also mentioned that Daniel Cortes was on the cusp of making the Top 100.

by CWSKeith on Jan 31, 2008 2:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Who did the Sox get for him, again?

MacDougal?

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 31, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes -- MacDougal for Lumsden, Cortes

by CWSKeith on Jan 31, 2008 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

wasn't bj lamura part of that trade?

by The Wizard on Jan 31, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think so

Lamura was a reliever, right? I want to say he went to the Dodgers, although I'm not sure if it was a trade or just a DFA.

by CWSKeith on Jan 31, 2008 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Err

scrap that -- wasn't Lamura part of the Sandy Alomar (part 10) deal?

by CWSKeith on Jan 31, 2008 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

oh yeah

[B-R]:

Sandy Alomar

July 23, 2006: Traded by the Los Angeles Dodgers to the Chicago White Sox for B.J. LaMura (minors).

by The Wizard on Jan 31, 2008 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

keith.

did you get to see the hawks last night? was one of the few games i get on tv out here. the first period made me more than happy enough to return to studying. special teams are absolutely killing them.

"On the run from Johnny Law...ain't no trip to Cleveland."

by Toonderstrook on Jan 31, 2008 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah -- terrible game

The team really responded to Savard going out and ripping them in the press, right? I'm not one to read into this type of stuff, but as a coach, you better be damn well sure that that type of move is going to motivate the guys. If not, I think you lose a lot of respect going to the reporters rather than keeping that type of 'rant' in-house.

It also hurts that Toews is still out and isn't expected back until mid-February.

by CWSKeith on Jan 31, 2008 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

if they don't start showing a spark

in the next 10 days, i'd keep him on the shelf as long as necessary to make sure he is 100%. the playoff hopes get dimmer by the day.

"Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines."

by Toonderstrook on Jan 31, 2008 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

think maybe they need that chip on their shoulder?

can you have a swagger in your skate?

by larry on Jan 31, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Gio was mine too

looks like I'm moving onto Jose Martinez or Sergio Miranda.

Bring Back BA

by marco054 on Jan 31, 2008 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

man there are a lot of former

sox prospects in that top 100.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 31, 2008 2:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Seeing as how

a league average starting pitcher who pitches half his games in the cell has a 4.90 ERA according to ZIPS, I'll go with 4.90 (and would be quite happy with that performance.)

by bhoov on Jan 31, 2008 2:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

morgan ensberg signed with the yankees

link

one less option for 3B...

by The Wizard on Jan 31, 2008 2:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

He'll play 1B

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jan 31, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Keith Law

also has a top 100 list out

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jan 31, 2008 2:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Weird

that Gio wasn't on his list. Fautino was at 57 while Poreda was at 67.

Bring Back BA

by marco054 on Jan 31, 2008 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think it's an oversight either

Law just doesn't think much of the diminutive Gonzalez.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jan 31, 2008 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

From recent memory

Law was never really big on Gio. He was part of the idea that thought his fastball was in the mid 80's range.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 31, 2008 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Goldstein chats

are so annoying uninformative.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 31, 2008 2:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

*annoyingly

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 31, 2008 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't be shocked

He's a Baseball America castoff and is basically copying exactly what they have always done...only Kevin is trying to cover all 30 teams while the BA guys can have a much more specialized look since they are only responsible for a few teams each. Problem is of course, that BA in their early days got trapped using shoddy local writers (i.e. Phil Rogers) for a few of the teams and can't get drop them for the fear of those writers giving them bad press. Still, I like Kevin, and he is a Chicagoan and a Sox fan, but the newer BA guys like Ben Badler and Matt Eddy are doing a much better job reversing BA's old scouts over stats image. BA's in-house writing is now easily more interesting than the strangely biased coverage of a lot of the BPro guys whose insights are no better than the common street blogger.

Keith Law is simply copying both BA and Kevin under the guise of ESPN. It's basically rankings for the sake of rankings and serves no real purpose other than to sell subscriptions and books to fantasy players. Whether or not Colby Rasmus is a better prospect than Cameron Maybin really doesn't make any difference. They'll both get their shot.

by Bull Pain on Jan 31, 2008 6:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

dallas mcpherson to the marlins

which is good because he's not with the giants. the marlins obviously weren't a potential suitor for crede.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=3892

by larry on Jan 31, 2008 3:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

What happened to McPherson...

last year? Was he hurt?

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 31, 2008 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

bet you've never heard this before about a 3B

back surgery.

by larry on Jan 31, 2008 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Pretty obvious that Crede is headed to the Giants.

Dallas McPherson to the Marlins.
Morgan Ensberg to the Yankees.

by SSH2005 on Jan 31, 2008 3:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Marlins also sign Luis Gonzalez...

Ken Rosenthal wrote:

Free-agent outfielder Luis Gonzalez has reached a preliminary agreement on a one-year contract with the Marlins, according to a major-league source.

The deal, which is likely to include a guaranteed salary of approximately $2 million and incentives worth up to $1 million, is contingent on Gonzalez passing a physical.

Gonzalez, 40, is expected to fill a combination of roles, including left field and first base, and serve as a mentor for the Marlins' younger players.

by SSH2005 on Jan 31, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

here's something to think about

is mentor a position like leadoff hitter and left field?

by larry on Jan 31, 2008 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, like "concubine" or

"mufti".

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Jan 31, 2008 4:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Mentors are generally grindy

They also spit often. Gonzales had his gum auctioned off didn't he? Very grindy.

Show mercy. I get to watch the Rangers.

by Tim from Texas on Jan 31, 2008 3:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Brad Wilkerson to the Mariners is official...

"Mariners sign Wilkerson to one-year deal"

Sounds like the Erik Bedard trade will go down soon.

by SSH2005 on Jan 31, 2008 4:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Mariners sign Wilkerson for $3 million+incentives

Mariners signed outfielder Brad Wilkerson, who had been with the Rangers, to a one-year, $3 million contract.
He can make an extra $2 million in playing time incentives. Wilkerson will step in as the starting right fielder if and when Adam Jones is traded for Erik Bedard. He'll probably hit low in the order initially, and since Safeco will rob him of homers, he may not be much more than a $7-$9 fantasy outfielder.

This could turn out to be a very nice signing if Wilkerson is/stays healthy but Safeco will definitely hurt his power numbers.

by SSH2005 on Jan 31, 2008 4:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

How [not] credible is this website?

http://mlb-rumors.blogspot.com/

Crede to Giants: The Giants and White Sox reportedly have a deal in place that would send Joe Crede to the Giants for at least two prospects. If Crede can get to Spring Training and prove that he can do well then they will go through with the trade. Otherwise, they will play with what they got.

At least two prospects?

by SSH2005 on Jan 31, 2008 4:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

well

if a two months of iguchi gets you one A ball reliever, shouldn't six month of crede get you three?

by larry on Jan 31, 2008 4:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

giants prospects

are worth only 1/2 of a normal prospect

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 31, 2008 5:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Johan Santana wants $26 million per season...

SI's Jon Heyman believes the Mets and Johan Santana are about $20 million apart in negotations.
Still, he believes they'll eventually come to terms. According to Heyman, the Mets are offering about $21.5 million per year for six guaranteed seasons, while Santana is looking at closer to $26 million per season. If the Mets are indeed willing to go the full six years, without a vesting option, then there's every reason to think that the two sides will come to terms.

Source: SI.com

So Santana costs us around 3 losses every season. With him off the Twins, what do we gain -- about 2 wins? We still have to beat whomever replaces Johan but this will be a much easier conquest.

by SSH2005 on Jan 31, 2008 6:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

no more tipping the cap

It's interesting when you put it that way... but yeah, we went from losing a guaranteed 3 games a year, to maybe picking up 3. I'd agree with ya and say maybe we can pick up 2 games. That's not too shabby, really. Almost as if we traded for a better starter.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 31, 2008 6:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

nope

there are still pirahnas in those waters. i'm sure hawk will tell us how the twins will be even scrappier without santana. thus, i think this is a net loss of three wins for the sox.

by larry on Jan 31, 2008 7:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

hah...

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 31, 2008 7:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

similarly,

instead of debating whether the twins could have gotten any "sure things/blue chips/etc." or if they held out too long, shouldn't we just rejoice in the fact that they didn't get ellsbury and lester or hughes and cabrera?

the twins getting some of those mlb-ready guys would have taken a bit of the sheen off of saying adios to santana.

"Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines."

by Toonderstrook on Jan 31, 2008 7:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

it's incredibly beneficial to the sox

that the twins didn't trade for any MLB-ready talent, else our 2008 chances would become even slimmer, I would think. This way, our 2008 chances are increased, while our 2009-2010 and so on are probably going to take a hit, as they will probably be reloaded by then and making a run at the indians for tops in the central

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 31, 2008 7:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why are our chances better?

We still need to beat the Tigers and Indians, which was the case before this trade. The Twins getting worse is just as beneficial to them as it us. Considering they are the two teams in front of us for the playoffs, it really doesn't do a thing for the White Sox in my opinion. It just means we will have a better third place record.

by Grinder in Training on Jan 31, 2008 9:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

2-3 wins could be

a huge difference maker. It could mean sneaking into the playoffs and staying at home.

No, I don't really think this team is going to make the playoffs, but this is something that could help them on the way. Maybe if a few more dominoes fall the Sox will have a real shot.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 31, 2008 9:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Uh ......no

2007

Santana vs opp

Good Guys 4 GS (3-1)
Clev 6 GS (0-5)
Det 6 GS (1-3)

Not real scientific but 1 of these kids is doing his own thing vs Mr Santana.

I know I know they were better than "us" but the squad has obviously been his "bitch" for some time.

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 1, 2008 9:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's Ozzie's pre-game

"why are we even playing this game" pep talk.

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Feb 1, 2008 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't Santana the (active) pitcher with the most

career victories against the White Sox? I think you can argue that the Sox will benefit just a bit more than the Tigers or Indians next season from him leaving the central.

www.fratdaddy.blogspot.com

by Raf on Jan 31, 2008 11:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

i agree

the Sox lineup was probably the most disabled by lefties considering it's reliance on one good hitter. until Fields' surprising show against them, they killed us.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Feb 1, 2008 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd guess...

lefties will no longer be an achilles heel for this team. Both Swisher and Fields should have .850 against southpaws, and while The OC doesn't have a huge platoon split, he does do a tad better versus lefties as well.

Hmm... looking at Cabrera's numbers (and I think Dayn Perry mentioned this in his article), I didn't realize he was so terrible in the second half. I wonder if it was wearing down or just 'regressing to the mean' (first half OPS of .810) -- if it was the former, maybe Ozzie should look at giving Uribe a (somewhat) decent amount of time at SS (for a backup -- I'm not looking for Uribe and Cabrera to be splitting time equally, obviously).

by CWSKeith on Feb 1, 2008 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That looks like...

regression to the mean to me. I'm no Cabrera fan, but I don't think he's had problems with wearing down as the season progresses.

I think we can count on Cabrera for a .700 - .725 OPS.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Feb 1, 2008 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yup

i'll go back to that quick and dirty stat BABIP: .344 in the first half and .288 in the second.

by larry on Feb 1, 2008 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Still has to be an improvement

wherever he hits - by position in the order (if he hits 2nd) and in the field (compared to Juanito).

I like the team much better the last 3-4 weeks than I did in November, but I still think we are .500-ish, with a husk of a farm system. But anything can happen....

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2008 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Meh.

Cabrera isn't a replacement-level ballplayer, but he's strictly average for his position.

If he puts up a .320 OBP/ .370 SLG batting second (which is about what I expect), he's not really helping the team, either.

In a decent lineup, someone like Cabrera bats eighth.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Feb 1, 2008 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

In the span of 1 hour your expectations

have gone from .700-.725 to .690. Perhaps if we wait a little longer Cabrera will = J. Owens. Or Jon Garland with a wand in his hand.

He'll be better than Uribe and won't be awful as a #2 hitter - we were so horrible last year that any live body is an improvement. He'll be OK.

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

the difference between .690 and .700 is nominal. I was just throwing numbers out there.

I would like someone who's going to be batting at the top of the order to have more on-base skills than Cabrera does, that's all.

But I'm fine with Cabrera, as long as he's gone after 2008.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Feb 1, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What happened to your range?

5% is a big gap - the difference between a .285 hitter and a .300 hitter. HOF difference...

;)

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2008 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

or maybe his stock will jump

and he might become micah owens with a railroad tie in his hands.

"Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines."

by Toonderstrook on Feb 1, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

*owings

"Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines."

by Toonderstrook on Feb 1, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

OPS from #2 hitters last year

.702

by larry on Feb 1, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

in case it wasn't clear, that's our #2

league average is .762

by larry on Feb 1, 2008 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think he'll be better than we had

last year, and a touch below league average.

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think we just found our motto for 08

The 2008 Chicago White Sox; Still below average, but better than last year.

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Feb 1, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

To expand...

Sox #2 hitters batted .240/.311/.391 in 2007, which is not too far off from what I expect Cabrera to do (well, Cabrera will likely have a higher batting average and fewer walks than that).

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Feb 1, 2008 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

isnt there still a chance

swisher hits #2?

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Feb 1, 2008 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure, but...

that probably means Cabrera leads off, and the same problem still applies.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Feb 1, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well, back to the same point

hes an upgrade over juan, so ill take it. but yes, not an ideal #1 or #2 if hes going to put up sub .700 OPS. you think there will be any signifant spike in his HR totals due to a better hitters park? any chance of 15?

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Feb 1, 2008 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe...

Heck, Uribe hit twenty last year (fifteen at Comiskey).

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Feb 1, 2008 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well, yeah,

you gotta hit a few jacks to be able to carry a team for weeks at a time. right, hawk?

"Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines."

by Toonderstrook on Feb 1, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I had forgotten...

how well Uribe did over the last few weeks of the season - .309/.358/.526 for September/October.

People laugh, but Uribe does have clear talent. It's just a question of whether he'll ever harness it.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Feb 1, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If we don't have better than .702

at #2 last year I will do a Frankie Pantangeli - have a nice meal, a big cigar, draw a warm bath, get in, and open up my veins.

Because it will be another brutal season. (Shudders.)

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I re-read this - I meant that if we don't have

better than .702 at #2 THIS year. Sorry for the immediate false hope.

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2008 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ha!

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Feb 1, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Relax...

and remember that the Sox are still less than three years removed from a championship.

I made a vow to myself a few days ago to keep that in mind, and not get too down on this team.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Feb 1, 2008 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Your comment a little

bit back about Uribe echo my sentiments exactly....I still see him getting 400 at-bats between platooning at second and spelling at ss and 3b. And I'm quite fine with that.

by dantesox on Feb 1, 2008 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Trib's view from a Sox fan

Did I miss something here?

What happened to Nick Masset? This guy should have gotten a much longer look at a starting spot in the rotation.

I know it was only one start but he pitched a great game against the Cubs -- 5.2 innings, three strikeouts and allowed only two runs. I say pretty good for his first start.

So answer this question...why wasn't he given another shot down the stretch? It would seem the bullpen isn't the best spot for him and is much more suited for a starting spot.

You can't make this shit up.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jan 31, 2008 11:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

To his credit

He nailed the first two sentences. And the first half of the last one.

Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Feb 1, 2008 1:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This was not me!

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Feb 1, 2008 8:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

A quote from MLBtraderumors.com...

Link:

With the McPherson and Ensberg signings today, Corey Koskie is pretty much the only remaining available free agent third baseman.

Yeah, ummm Joe, your plane is boarding soon.

by SSH2005 on Feb 1, 2008 1:02 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

So disappointed

Whenever I open up the Chicagosports.com page, and see a Hardball Times article about the sox, i get excited hoping that its phil rogers so i can laugh this morning. well, not today....damn you mark gonzalez!!!

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Feb 1, 2008 7:28 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

wow

this is a great explication of how santana used his NTC as leverage against the twins and now is using the trade as leverage against the mets. santana and his advisers have played this perfectly so far - both in terms of strategy and in the PR realm.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=740

since it's unfiltered, it's free to everyone.

by larry on Feb 1, 2008 1:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Nice article - well reasoned

As to the "cold" process - WTF? It's business. No acrimony, no hostility, just solid leverage, well-played. very professional. Like Santana's pitching. I like him more and more.

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well

i can guarantee you that, if it were a different player, the "cold process" part of this would be getting far more play in the media and far more negative play. santana is one of those players that people "like" for a variety of reasons. obviously being in minnesota helps limit the media scrutiny (it sure ain't new york) but santana has been smart to just keep his mouth firmly shut during this process.

by larry on Feb 1, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But his Paul Bunyan-esque status

in Minny put him squarely in thir sights, and he still comes off as a pro. Perhaps it's because, as you said, he keeps his mouth shut and doesn't whine to the media. His agents also do a good job, realizing they are not "the show" (unlike Drew Rosenhaus, et.al.).

The fact that he's smaller than the average bear probably helps, too - seems like an unintimidating guy, except to face with a bat in your hand.

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2008 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs