He's a tough son-of-a-gun!

by The Wizard on Jan 5, 2008 12:35 PM CST in Quotes Comment 103 comments

"For us, [attitude] is almost as equal to the talent, because, in our particular market, it is such that you have to be a fighter, you have to be a tough son-of-a-gun to come in and perform at a high level. This guy fits in perfectly with what we're trying to do."

Build Chicago Tough! ***** More on MLBTR's 'Paulie to the Angels' rumor from yesterday and this is "hot" baby:

Angels general manager Tony Reagins might be in position to complete an acquisition his mentor never could. A source has indicated the Angels and Chicago White Sox are discussing a second trade of the offseason, with this one sending Paul Konerko to the Angels, while Howie Kendrick and Ervin Santana are possible candidates to head to Chicago. Indications are, though, that the White Sox also have inquired about a package that includes Chone Figgins. The White Sox are also in the market for bullpen help after their relievers melted down most of last season. The potential deal has apparently become the hot rumor among general managers, according to the source. Asked if he has any interest in Konerko, Reagins said: "I definitely can't confirm or deny that." Trading Konerko would let the White Sox move Nick Swisher from the outfield to first base while the players received could fill other needs. Swisher was acquired Oakland Athletics on Thursday.

But are these guys build 'Chicago Tough'? No Garlands allowed! UPDATE: MLB.com is reporting it too. ***** In other news,

Jim looks back at Gerry Staley.
The Sox signed former pirate 1B Brad Eldred to a minor-league deal. The Mariners hired Jaime Navarro as a pitching coach for their Class-A minor-league team. Heath Phillips signed a minor-league deal with the Yankees.

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Comments

Hm...

That seems a bit far-fetched to me. Why would the Angels give up valuable players for Konerko?

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 5, 2008 12:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

yes, giving kendrick sounds far-fetched

rotoworld says so too

[rotoworld]:

We can't imagine that the Angels would seriously entertain the possibility of parting with Kendrick for Konerko. Figgins maybe. It wouldn't be a very good idea at all, but it might not make the team any worse. In our minds, Konerko only makes sense if he replaces Gary Matthews Jr. He and Casey Kotchman had the same OPS last year (841 to 840). Now, Kotchman was protected from left-handed pitchers, but Kotchman actually did well when he got to face southpaws, he's the far better defender and he's due $11.5 million less next season. First base simply isn't a need for the Angels. Jan. 5 - 3:20 am et

by The Wizard on Jan 5, 2008 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes...

the only reason the Angels would want Konerko would be as a DH, and they don't need the slight upgrade at DH to win their division. As it stands, the Angels are easily the best team in their division.

Would Konerko be nice for them? Sure. But there's absolutely no need for the Angels to give up anyone of value for him. I wouldn't even give up Figgins alone for Paul Konerko.

On the other side of the ledger, I don't see Ken Williams dumping Konerko for salary relief. This trade doesn't happen.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 5, 2008 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

In their minds

They arent trying to win the division. They are trying to win the WS.

Jer I know you believe 32 is the end of a player's career. But you know, it really isnt.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jan 5, 2008 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

32 is not the end

but 25 is a lot better

by The Wizard on Jan 5, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Of course it is

But what is the point. Kotchman certainly has potential and is young. More importantly he is cheap. But Konerko certainly can fit in over there playing some 1b and a lot of DH. The Angels aren't crying about cash.

I still believe numbers wise he will outproduce them all in 08.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jan 5, 2008 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

IF.......

....you look at the sox track record of developing young pitchers the trade doesn't seem as bad.

I'm a disgruntled Whitesox fan and I can't spell

by chisox on Jan 5, 2008 12:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

DO IT....

Figgins gives us a great leadoff man...Shields is a nice bullpen piece and santana can push floyd..Plus then we can move swisher to 1st.Howie Kendrick I don't think that will happen so...What's not to like?

Don't Stop believing!!!Did journey not teach us anything?

by JenksDaMan45 on Jan 5, 2008 12:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Vote Bosh!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv7IZP7u9FE

by The Wizard on Jan 5, 2008 1:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

i never thought anyone would top

pat burke's congressional run. sam mitchell makes ozzie look like an introvert too.

Dubee and Danks and pray for Taco Bell

by hscs on Jan 5, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

On White Sox Weekly this morning...

Chris Rongey talked to White Sox Director of Player Development Alan Regier on the show. Regier said two interesting things of note:

* Before the Swisher trade, the White Sox had their pitching prospects ranked in the following order:

#1 Gio
#2 Egbert
#3 DSL

* The White Sox will soon announce that they have hired ex-Mets utility-man Joe McEwing as a minor league hitting instructor.

by SSH2005 on Jan 5, 2008 1:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

And Joe McEwing will be coaching AAA Charlotte.

by SSH2005 on Jan 5, 2008 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's what I suspected

DSL may very well have had the highest value he's ever going to have, especially as far as the Sox are concerned. He proved himself worthy of a higher level far sooner than he actually received promotion.

But they also value players, it would seem, based on actual major league value. Egbert is probably at his peak, but he's also MLB-ready right now. That's how I managed my prospect list.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 5, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Cubs trade Angel Pagan back to the Mets...

from where they got him originally.

And the Pirates have signed Jose Macias to a minor league deal Haha.

by SSH2005 on Jan 5, 2008 1:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

White Sox sign former Pirates 1B Brad Eldred...

to a minor league deal.

by SSH2005 on Jan 5, 2008 1:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Eldred

he has big league power.

MrROFL.com

by shaftr on Jan 5, 2008 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And that's about it.

by SSH2005 on Jan 5, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

high K rate, low walk rate, lots of power.

MrROFL.com

by shaftr on Jan 5, 2008 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Konerko

I really havent read this that much but it does need to be said even though he is "32" Konerko remains a good candidate to rebound from his really down year. (His OPS dropped from .909 and .932 to .841).

Last year he had a pretty unlucky .267 BABIP. However his BB% was up 3% while his K% was constant.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jan 5, 2008 2:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I don't think I've seen you ever make...

one single post from the pessimistic side of things. This kind of makes me think that you are just a Sox homer from WSI.

by SSH2005 on Jan 5, 2008 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I didnt know it was my job

To seek to make pessimistic remarks. Are there things that bother me? Of course. I just don't complain about them.

What you don't see me on here saying is I KNOW they will win or lose or will win the division or ws next year. So Im sorry you seek misery loves company posts. Im not the guy.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jan 5, 2008 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So?

He backed up a statement with reasoning.

Nothing wrong with optimistic Sox fans, although you tend to engage in a borderline obsessive "seek and destroy" mission whenever you find one.

Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Jan 5, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I buy into a poster's opinion...

when they don't always paint a rosey picture of everything all the time.

by SSH2005 on Jan 5, 2008 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Shouldn't the reasoning behind

the statements be the convincing bit?

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 5, 2008 2:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Because he is probably correct...

in that Konerko could rebound next season but the real reason to trade him would be because his 10-5 rights are coming up soon. The Sox don't really need to be strapped with an aging 1B/DH earning $12 million a year in 2009 and 2010 with the way the team is currently configured.

by SSH2005 on Jan 5, 2008 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I must have missed the part

When I said Konerko is likely to rebound/ The Sox should not trade him. PK is one of my favorite players, but I don't have a problem with the Sox moving him at all.

Come now, perhaps your own pessimistic nature tends to cloud things a bit.

You would be a all the way empty glass sort of fella.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jan 5, 2008 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

OK, I did not know that you were cool with...

trading Konerko. Cool. But I still want to know what I should appreciate as a Sox fan considering we were 72-90 last season.

by SSH2005 on Jan 5, 2008 2:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They may end up trading him for

a decidedly underwhelming return then. I don't think I'd have an issue with it, either way.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 5, 2008 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

So Im rosy all the time? My wife would love to hear that one. Look SSH2005 you buy into what you want. I dont comment on everything, just those things I have an opinion on.

The hilarious thing is and much to bhoov's point, I have tried to get some friends of mine to join and contribute to the site. But....

A) They think this is the most negative site on the face of the planet, filled with unappreciative Sox fans

B) They are horribly afraid if they post and make a mistake they will be ripped to shreds

I can only defend SSS so much.

I mean people would never do that here, would they??

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jan 5, 2008 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Read my previous post.

by SSH2005 on Jan 5, 2008 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

FWIW

I appreciate your optimism. It greatly adds to this site in my opinion.

by hitlesswonder on Jan 5, 2008 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

"Unappreciative Sox fans"?

Ummm, what does this mean?

I appreciate 2005 but other than that, what should I appreciate? 2005 was three years ago now. Both Ozzie and Kenny said that 2005 was over. I pay good money for Sox tickets, etc. and I expect to see a good team on the field. Why should I appreciate my favorite playing like the Kansas City Royals last season?

by SSH2005 on Jan 5, 2008 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey Im just the messenger

I wasnt thrilled about last year either. And for the most part I agree with you. Im greedy. I want more wins, playoffs and world series just like everybody.

Perhaps one day Ill convince them the boogie man doesnt exist and they can express their opinion.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jan 5, 2008 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i'm the motherfuckin' boogie man

sounds to me like your friends are pussies. you seem like a figher but keep in mind that vaginitis is contagious. be sure to wash your hands thoroughly after hanging out with them. ;)

by larry on Jan 5, 2008 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

lmao

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jan 5, 2008 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If it's not stupid, it's usually appreciated

usually what happens is you test the waters, take some fire and then figure out how to fit in.

But most of us have a good sense of humor about things.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 5, 2008 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Disagree with those sentiments

The wide variance in opinion (oftentimes skewed by our outlook on life) is what makes SSS the best White Sox site.

This place would be the most depressing place on the internet if we were all from the JRE school of pessimism. And it would be the most sickeningly sunny and cheery place if we were all from the bhoov and Tdogg school of optimism (I think ballyb may have jumped out of the optimistic camp :-)

by bhoov on Jan 5, 2008 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

frankly, i think this site generally produces a relatively balanced discourse. we've got people who are pessimistic, optimistic, and in the middle.

by larry on Jan 5, 2008 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He's usually been around .300, so I agree with you

His ISO has declined every year since '04 though. I don't think he'll ever slug .530 again. But if he can make up for it with walk rate, he can keep his value. Also, he hit far fewer line drives than he normally does, but I have no idea how permanent that is.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 5, 2008 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What were the line drive numbers?

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jan 5, 2008 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I use fangraphs all the time

scroll down to get the exact numbers

And check out the graphs section too, if you're not familiar with the site. It provides a really nice visual trend for things like ISO, BB%, etc.

Anyway, he's been at 21.4% since 2002 and managed just 17.4% last year. The previous two years he was above 24%. His game really is line drives, which is why his average fluctuates so wildly. It's been less an issue has he's gotten older, because he's generated more flyballs and therefore more power, but his game isn't all that changed.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 5, 2008 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well its officially the headline at mlb.com

so i doubt anything goes down

by Jbasic89 on Jan 5, 2008 2:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

From what I've seen...

when something gets posted to MLB.com as news, that usually means that there is some truth to the rumor.

But you are correct in that most publicized White Sox trade rumors never come to fruition and Kenny busts out a trade that no one is expecting, like the Swisher trade.

I still don't see the Angels taking on Konerko's salary and giving up Howie Kendrick without the Sox taking on Sarge Jr.'s bad contract. I would take on Sarge Jr. if the trade looked like this...

Angels get:
Paul Konerko
Joe Crede

White Sox get:
Gary Matthews Jr.
Howie Kendrick
Ervin Santana

Sign me up for that deal. ; ) I guess the Angels could then use Konerko and Kotchman at both 1B and DH and platoon Garret Anderson and Juan Rivera in LF.

by SSH2005 on Jan 5, 2008 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

sounds good

too good!

by The Wizard on Jan 5, 2008 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Vlad

I thought I had read that the Angels had to count on sticking Vlad in the DH role like much of the 2nd half last season (not to mention Garret Anderson). If so, yet another reason they don't need/have room for Konerko.

For a good time, check out http://www.myspace.com/niks0. She is so *nickalicious.*

by Toonderstrook on Jan 5, 2008 2:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Vlad in the DH role

Now that would be a good reason to tell Konerko no thanks!

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jan 5, 2008 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I heard that as well...

but I have also heard that the Angels really want to improve their offense since it hasn't been very good the past few seasons.

by SSH2005 on Jan 5, 2008 2:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Man, any of those scenarios that involve

Kendrick would be highway robbery. A cheap 23 y.o. 2B with a career minor league OPS of .964 who posted a 108 ERA+ last year for a very good market rate 32 y.o. 1B. I'd take any bad contract they wanted to dump if it got me Kendrick. Heck I'd even include Fields with Paulie for Kendrick (and keep Crede) and GMjr. Although that would actually make it a fair trade.

by bhoov on Jan 5, 2008 2:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I gave Jbasic

shit about this, so I want to ask you guys:

What's so great about Kendrick? I know he's cheap, but he doesn't look like he's going to be much more than an .800 OPSer unless he can start hitting line drives. He's been injured...but staying healthy is a skill, one he might not have.

Also, he appears to have had low line drive rates (relative to his BA) in the minors too. I'm concerned that he's something of a fluke.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 5, 2008 3:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Hmmm Fan Graphs

has him with a LD% of 15.9 last year, but First inning has him at 18%. It also had him at 18% his last milb stop. Anywhere else to check LD%? Yes the guy is BA dependent, but he hit .359 over 1529 minor league ABs. He hit above .340 at every single stop since he was 19! Then in his first full big league season he hits .322.

If there is a young guy in MLB (less than 2 years experience) that you can count to hit for average I would think it's him. If the lower LD% is accurate then I don't know, maybe the guy hits a lot of really hard ground balls.

by bhoov on Jan 5, 2008 4:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, it's confusing. He's got

an extensive body of work with a high average, despite the fact that he's not a base stealer/triples hitter. Maybe he just has incredible bat control? I lived in San Diego and watched Tony Gwynn in his prime and they always used to say he could find the 5.5 hole with some regularity. That sounds pretty folksy though.

Maybe I'll write one of the BP/THT guys.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 5, 2008 6:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If we do end up with Matthews Jr.

he's not a bad player. His salary just sucks. He looks like he's going to be an average or so player, though I bet his line drive rate recovers to get him above that level. His PMR had him at slightly above average defensively too. He also loses full no trade after '09 (has 4 clubs thereafter), though I'm not sure that'll matter at that point. His contract isn't too bad, though it's way too long. Maybe they can get some money to go with it.

Getting rid of Konerko before his 10 and 5 come through will probably mean the money isn't coming; it should be clear they're doing us a favor.

I still doubt it'll happen though.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 5, 2008 3:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

okay

i have no problem with trading PK. but no team will be "doing us a favor" by trading for him. PK doesn't suck and his contract is manageable.

by larry on Jan 5, 2008 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

the favor is getting out of the NTC

not the contract or player. that's probably the cost of the money that might have theoretically come with, i was thinking.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 5, 2008 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that may be true

if you need to unload someone. not sure that's the case for the sox. he's not exactly an onerous weight on the team.

by larry on Jan 5, 2008 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

depends on how they see his

decline phase.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 5, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Kendrick

He concerns me too since he is so BA heavy, still I'd take him. I wouldn't mind buying low on Ervin Santana either.

MrROFL.com

by shaftr on Jan 5, 2008 3:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Looked at Santana's pitch f/x

Santana is a future closer if nothing changes. He's got basically two pitches. Plus velocity with average movement on a fastball that gets hit too much. It looks like his K rate may have jumped a bit thanks to an excess of called strikes for his slider, which batters whiffed on at an average rate. He never throws his change. From the pen, that's a few ticks on the fastball and a little more movement on the slider.

That's if he doesn't add a pitch or improve his change to the point where he feels he can throw it consistently, though.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 5, 2008 4:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

yup

i don't see santana as a major league starter. so long as he is valued that way, fine. but if he's being valued from his 06 numbers.... maybe this is a job for super coop but i don't like santana at all.

by larry on Jan 5, 2008 4:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not much to like

and it seems to me that you can only give Coop so many reclamation projects a year. Given the potential state of the bullpen, I'd rather have him focus on that, plus Floyd, Danks and Contreras.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 5, 2008 6:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

According to Bruce Levine of ESPN 1000...

the Cubs are interested in Jon Lieber and...

Alex Cintron. Ronny Cedeno would be included in a trade for Brian Roberts so Cintron would back up Ryan Theriot.

by SSH2005 on Jan 5, 2008 5:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Tribune writer's HOF votes

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/cs-080105baseballhalloffamvoting,1,6288438.story?ctrack=2&c set=true

Dan McGrath: Rice, Dawson, Gossage, and Tramell (though about Morris, Blyleven, Lee Smith) "a truly unremarkable class of first-year eligibles McGrath didn't give Raines a thought.

Downey: Dawson, McGwire, Tramell

Rogers: notes "no strong first-ballot candidates... Blyleven, Morris, Trammell, Dawson, Rice, Gossage

Van Dyck: Baines, Dawson, Gossage, Tommy John, Lee Smith

Paul Sullivan: Dawson, Baines, Raines, Gossage, Smith

Philip Hersh: Dawson, Rice?, Mattingly, Trammell, Gossage? and Smith? (He said something about more relief pitchers)

Fred Mitchell: Gossage, Smith, Dawson, Blyleven, Morris, Tommy John.

Teddy Greenstein (First time voter): Mattingly, Blyleven, Smith, Dawson, Gossage

Mark Gonzales:

Someday, Tim Raines may be voted into the Hall of Fame.

But not this year, at least not on this ballot.

No eligible player has consumed more time for evaluation since I began voting after the 2001 season. His scrutiny reflects what Darin Erstad told me during an interview last March about Scott Podsednik and becoming an effective leadoff batter.

"It's not as easy as people think," Erstad said.

Agreed.

It's also why I'm grateful I'll have more chances to vote for Raines in the future. But after three days of crunching numbers and weighing other considerations, I wasn't ready to vote for Raines--yet.

Initially I was swayed toward his four consecutive stolen base titles and six seasons of at least 70 steals. He also had an impressive .385 career on-base percentage along with a .294 lifetime batting average.

This isn't about whether Raines would have been a shoo-in if he had collected 3,000 hits. If he had dominated over a longer period, he would have received my vote. He still could draw my vote in coming years, especially considering the dearth of productive pure leadoff hitters in this era.

Looks like he only voted for Rice and Gossage, which would (arguably) make him a small hall guy and make his reluctance to elect Raines a bit more bearable, even if he was a far superior player to Rice.

Raines deserves to be in... This year... And with Ricky Henderson on the ballot next year (right?) he'll garner even less support then.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jan 5, 2008 5:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Yep...

Raines had a .294/.385/.425/.810 career line with 808 SB and only 146 CS. An 84.7% SB success rate is unheard of.

by SSH2005 on Jan 5, 2008 6:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Raines should be a shoo-in

The sad thing is he probably won't even make it. Reading the above list and not seeing Raines on most of them upset me. It's incredible absolutely incredible how bad sports journalism is. They are just so unwilling to open up themselves past their opinions and look at numbers.

MrROFL.com

by shaftr on Jan 5, 2008 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

he'll get in

they're just doing that chickenshit "he's not a first ballot hall of famer." it's the same as those people last year who didn't vote for gwynn or ripken because "he shouldn't be a unanimous selection." they're just protecting the game, you know.

by larry on Jan 5, 2008 6:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting piece in the New York Times

today re: Rock. He, Willie Wilson, and Rickey were FAR superior to their peer group at creating runs. Times argues for Raines' Hall inclusion on the first ballot.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/sports/baseball/06score.html?_r=1&ref=baseball&oref=slogin

Chicago writers are bozos.

(Now, is that a positive piece because Raines is being touted as an immediate HOF-er? Or negative because of the "Bozo" comment? Tdogg, what say you? Perhaps a poll of the women you hang out with would shed some light...)

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Jan 6, 2008 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why do these guys have to be

in charge of this? I'd care so much more if it weren't governed by the caprice of often times ignorant sports writers.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 5, 2008 6:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

because that's way it's always been done

duh. you youngsters just have no respect for tradition.

by larry on Jan 5, 2008 6:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i did

but those were the pre SSS days. you guys have corrupted my young heart. alas!

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 5, 2008 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It would be nice if the MLB.com news link...

on this possible Konerko trade is accurate.

"Hot Stove: Angels pursuing Konerko?
Kendrick, Santana could be heading to White Sox in deal"

If the trade truly is Konerko for Howie Kendrick and Ervin Santana straight-up, Kenny better be all over it. Then, sign Mike Cameron for a couple seasons and I like our lineup a lot. I do fear Jerry Owens starting though. I would only want to see him for the 25 games that Cameron is suspended.

2B Kendrick
SS Cabrera
1B Swisher
DH Thome
RF Dye
CF Cameron
3B Fields
C Pierzynski
LF Quentin

by SSH2005 on Jan 5, 2008 6:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

that link says 1:06 pm

this says 2:28: [MLB.com]:

The Los Angeles Daily News reported in its Saturday edition that new general manager Tony Reagins has been involved in talks with the White Sox for Konerko, who will be 32 this season and has averaged 36.75 homers over the past four seasons.

Among the names the White Sox reportedly have interest in are second baseman Howie Kendrick, third baseman Chone Figgins and pitcher Ervin Santana. All three would not be involved in a deal, with Chicago apparently seeking a package of two players.

The two teams already have paired up for one big swap. The White Sox sent starting pitcher Jon Garland to the Angels for shortstop Orlando Cabrera in November. Chicago has pitching needs, notably in the bullpen, and is seeking a leadoff man.

Angels manager Mike Scioscia, who has addressed the club's need for improved slugging percentage, has a history with Konerko dating to their days together in the Dodgers organization.

by The Wizard on Jan 5, 2008 6:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

we coulda used that .75 home run last year

by larry on Jan 5, 2008 6:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Konerko/Crede for Kendrick/Santana

I'd like to make that move. Sign Cameron and I could get excited about the season.

MrROFL.com

by shaftr on Jan 5, 2008 7:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This deal, by the way

would make the Cunningham/Richar trade completely pointless, but I could forgive losing Cunningham if it meant Kendrick in a Sox uniform.

I believe most of this is 'puffing smoke', but it's exciting nonetheless.

by CWSKeith on Jan 5, 2008 7:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Cameron could make a huge difference

on this team and I hope Kenny sees how. He's got 10 pts of OBP and probably 30 of SLG on Sarge Jr and with Swish on the team, we don't even have to play Jesse.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 5, 2008 6:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's a quality lineup

and the certainty of Kendrick over Richar is very nice, plus the added bonus of Kendrick is that is will (or should) please the folks still clammoring for a "leadoff man".

Kenny pulls off that string of moves and I think I may be back on his bandwagon. The bullpen would again be (more or less) a crapshoot, but it'd be nice having another somewhat decent option for the back of the rotation in Santana.

by CWSKeith on Jan 5, 2008 7:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

pipe dream

i cant see the angels GM being that dumb to move kendrick for konerko, but then again, he was dumb enough to pay hunter 90 mil.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 5, 2008 7:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Santana

I know he was bad last year, but still:

a) 2.96 ERA in Sept/Oct.
b) 107 ERA+ in 06
c) He's only 25.

MrROFL.com

by shaftr on Jan 5, 2008 7:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Pitchers don't grow like

batters do. His stuff is underwhelming and he's only got two pitches. I commented earlier that he's a future closer. If he were seen that way, I would definitely trade Jenks if Santana were given a tryout first. We could get serious value for that.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 5, 2008 7:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you might be right

most similar pitchers by age:

Ben Sheets
Ben Sheets
Kyle Lohse

MrROFL.com

by shaftr on Jan 5, 2008 7:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

what's that from?

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 5, 2008 8:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

B-R: Most Similar by Age

scroll to the end

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/santaer01.shtml

by The Wizard on Jan 5, 2008 8:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So that means

that at age 22 and 23, the most similar was Sheets and now, at 24, it's Lohse? Eeesh.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 5, 2008 8:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

didnt see it up top

but any thought of kotchman and santana for konerko? maybe they feel morales will be ready to take over for paulie in 2 years??

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 5, 2008 7:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

and get a more

established hitter for the next few years to make a run at the WS. i know they had similar OPS, but konerko has much more power.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 5, 2008 7:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Williams denies rumor

From the Tribune

"I haven't spoken to [Angels GM] Tony Reagins or anyone with the Angels since the winter meetings [in early December]," Williams said.

AIM : Option27

by Option27 on Jan 5, 2008 10:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

You know your team is in trouble

when it keep talking about "grit" and "toughness"

by RollingWave on Jan 6, 2008 7:08 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

trade em all!

Crede, konerko, uribe for figgins, santana, and kendrick.

lineup:

Figgins LF
Cabrera SS
Swisher RF
Thome 1B
Dye DH
Cameron CF
Pierzinski C
Fields 3B
Kendrick 2B

by paulito on Jan 6, 2008 9:08 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Too much salary

Given the Halos' dismal offence in last year's playoffs they really use the certainty of a Konerko and to a lesser extent Crede (the back issues) in comparison to an up-and-down Casey Kotchman and similar younger players.

On the other hand, handing over the 3 salaries you suggest (Konerko, Crede, and el-tubbo)would require something equally costly (GMJr.).

Also, and again, assuming the Angels want a ring in 2008 and are wanting to keep their best bats, Figgins seems to be someone you want to keep at the top of your line up this year.

Canada's finest

by MarkD on Jan 6, 2008 11:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

What works for both teams

Sox send Konerko, Uribe (salary dump and back up for Aybar), and low minor leaguer.

Angels send GMJr. (salary dump), Ervin Santana, and either Kotchman or Willits.

Again, if the Angels want known good bats this year then they want Konerko but not by giving up Figgins.

With a crowded outfield for the Angels, that puts Figgins at 3rd base (and no need for Crede).

The Sox get younger and a "hold your nose and remember its him or Jerry Owens" GMJr.

Canada's finest

by MarkD on Jan 6, 2008 12:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

GMJr's defense in CF

Was the worst in the majors last season, wasn't it? and that contract, even if LAA paid half of it, is terrible. I'd rather have Owens. I can't express what a bad move trading Konerko for GMJr and Santana is. Ervin may be highly regraded, but he's been bad for a while now. And the Sox need minor league starters, not Santana.

by hitlesswonder on Jan 6, 2008 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not trying to nitpick

I just remember you saying this a couple of times and metrics I saw and predict for the coming year show this is far from the case.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jan 6, 2008 3:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If I'm wrong, I'm happy to be corrected

I was going by this table that Cheat posted. Maybe I'm misreading it. What projections have Gary looking good?

by hitlesswonder on Jan 6, 2008 4:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

there are multiple metrics out there

and we can debate until we're blue in the face which to believe. however, i don't think there are any that suggest matthews is a good CF. in fact, while i'm not sure i'd go so far as to call him the worst, i'd probably call him well below average.

regarding the fielding bible stats, which you cite, it's interesting that prior to the 2006 season, dewan really liked matthews and said as much. two years later, his system has him ranked as the worst. the numbers were suggesting a decline in defense (he was always considered a reliable, but not great, defender) in texas in 2006, which was probably glossed over because of that catch. i don't think he should be allowed anywhere near center at this point. and, since he can't hit, he's not worth a corner spot. hence the reason he is referred to - and actually correctly in this case - as a fourth outfielder.

by larry on Jan 6, 2008 4:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Then I must be seriously mis reading something

THT's RZR % for him is .850 certainly no where near the bottom and his OOZ score of 62 seems to indicate he reaches his fair share of balls outside his zone.

On Chone's site his projections for 08 show an 11 for the corner and 4 for CF. Again by no means the best but certainly not the worst.

As you point out this whole defensive metric stuff varies and just doesnt make a lot of sense to me. As one who watches Gary quite often it just appears to defy logic to me that he is anywhere near a liability in CF.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jan 6, 2008 4:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

there are guys who "look good"

out there but actually aren't that good. sizemore. jeter. matthews probably is in or getting to that vicinity. outfield defense, maybe most particularly center, is perhaps the most difficult to judge if you're not actually in the park specfically watching the player. i don't have a particular stake in my opinion either way but the probably three games i saw him play in person over the last couple years i wasn't impressed (i wasn't thinking he was the worst, either). coupled with the general trend in his defensive stats and his age, i don't want to touch him. this guy will be absolutely awful on both sides of the ball in two years - and he's signed for four more. no thanks. you'll get basically the same overall production from quentin or, maybe to a lesser degree, owens.

by larry on Jan 6, 2008 5:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Cant disagree there.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jan 6, 2008 5:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He'll probably be average now though

so it's basically a matter of whether or not the Sox want to bite the bullet, knowing they'll end up with 2 years at more than 20M where they won't have a CF. That doesn't sound like their MO.

I still don't see what's wrong with Cameron.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 6, 2008 5:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

there are things to be concerned about

with cameron; of course, there are always things to be concerned about when a player is in their decline phase. i find his futility against RHers, especially in the second half, to be one. the suspension is another. he's gonna fall of the table one of these days - will it be next year? who knows. i'd expect him to put up .330/.425 for the sox. but i've been wrong before. at any rate, unless the sox can move swisher to 1B, signing cameron doesn't make sense.

by larry on Jan 6, 2008 7:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well if they want to compete

I think that means putting Carlos in AAA. Dye-Cameron-Swisher is pretty formidable defensively. Dye-Swish-Carlos is probably about the same offensively, but there isn't a legit center fielder there, I don't think. We'll probably see a lot of late inning defensive substitutions: JO for Carlos/Dye to go Dye-Jesse-Swisher.

But can we pleeeeaaaase start some kind of petition to move Dye to left? I swear Granderson is going to end up with the career triples record if we keep him there through the length of his deal.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 6, 2008 8:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Dye to LF

What's there to say? I don't know how anyone could not see it as the right move. The only way it isn't is if Dye moves to 1B.

I'd like for Kenny and Ozzie to live up to their "I'm here to win games" talk and move a veteran to position that will help them win more. If Dye's Chicago Tough he should be able to deal with it.

by hitlesswonder on Jan 6, 2008 9:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs