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Kenny says he has a plan

Acmilan_tiny by The Wizard on in Quotes

And I was afraid he doesn't:

In addition to sending top pitching prospects Gio Gonzalez and Fautino De Los Santos to the A's for Nick Swisher, the White Sox also traded veteran starter Jon Garland to the Angels for shortstop Orlando Cabrera in November.

Kenny Williams said he prepared himself for such a talent shift last off-season, when he stockpiled pitchers like Gonzalez, Gavin Floyd, Jon Danks and Nick Masset.

"Part of our plan going into the '06 off-season was pitching depth -- pitching depth to deal as well as pitching depth to use," said Williams, who added minor-league starters Lance Broadway and Jack Egbert are "knocking on the door."

Is this plan F? FF? FFF?

When discussing the Swisher trade one point many made was that Gio isn't all that is portrayed to be (HR tendencies, pitcher's park, repeated AA, didn't pitch in Charlotte's park etc.). OK, but don't tell me the pitching talent acquired last year Broadway, Floyd, and Masset will fill the pitching talent gap Gio and Fautino would have filled.

*****
In other news,
  • Jim on the Konerko rumor.
  • Kenny got his man again.
  • Is Cashman gone? (From BBTF).
  • BTB has an interview with Paul DePodesta.

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It will be Interesting
TO see what Kenny does with Konerko.  If, as speculated, he manages to flip him for Santana, Kendrick and some, then he managed an outstanding 'plan'.  
The internet's latest attempt at understanding what is going on inside baseball

by bheikoop on Jan 6, 2008 2:24 PM CST   0 recs

there is a small problem if this is kenny's plan
and the problem with this is that it assumes the angels are downright stupid!

by The Wizard on Jan 6, 2008 2:41 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

The Angels ARE downright stupid
$90 million dollars to Torii Hunter.
$55 million dollars to Sarge Jr after one good year.

Thewizardsofoz, the thing is, they ARE downright stupid.  

by dgribben357 on Jan 6, 2008 2:46 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Who is stupid?
The LAA have money to burn -- signing GMJr and Hunter is nothing to them. It's much better for them to use money to fill holes than prospects.

Williams has no minor league system outside of his three top prospects, but he's burned those this winter instead using money wisely (cough...cough..Cameron and not Linebrink) to fill holes.

I doubt LAA is dumb enough to trade Kendrick. I'm not all sure Williams isn't dumb enough to trade Konerko for GMJr and a reliever.

by hitlesswonder on Jan 6, 2008 3:20 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

OK, let's assume they're stupid sometimes then
I think a sane GM wouldn't want to depend on whether the Angels do something stupid

by The Wizard on Jan 6, 2008 7:12 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

stupid with money
is way different from stupid with prospects.

by larry on Jan 6, 2008 7:23 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I agree totally with you larry
just for conversation's sake

by The Wizard on Jan 6, 2008 7:27 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

correction
just for conversation's sake

my assumption was made just for conversation's sake

by The Wizard on Jan 6, 2008 7:40 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Its a Tough Call
Obviously it would be a lot to pay for Konerko, but I believe the Angels would be better off with him.  That said, I'm by no means suggesting they are getting the best deal, just that the team would be improved, in my opinion with Konerko.

Although, do they actually even need him???

The internet's latest attempt at understanding what is going on inside baseball

by bheikoop on Jan 6, 2008 3:14 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

It may be plan F but it's better than A through E
Swisher may be plan F but he's a better (and younger) baseball player that Hunter and Rowand, and more proven than Fukodome.  It would be funny if Kenny's being frustrated by other, dumber GMs forced him into a plan that made more sense.  It's happened before, remember Omar Vizquel?  Williams goes out and gets a player who is an even bet to post a 900+ OPS for a few years and he gets ripped for trading an outfield bust, a A-ball first year professional rookie, and a pitcher who repeated AA ball?  WTFO?

The big critique-of-critiques I have is the wailing over Fautino.  The guy is 21 and has pitched less than a full season in A and A+ ball and he's anointed the system's #1 prospect?  We don't even know if his UCL can survive professional pitching... and neither does Beane.  

by dgribben357 on Jan 6, 2008 2:45 PM CST   0 recs

very good points
but contemplate this too:

if you had a choice whom to use to fill the future pitching slots, who would you go with: masset, floyd, sisco, broadway, egbert or gio and fautino?

by The Wizard on Jan 6, 2008 2:57 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I think that's the point though,
that such a question is too tough to answer right now, given the lack of experience DLS has. Look at your own inquiry, Wiz. You mention Floyd: a few years ago, Floyd was a top pick and projected ace. Look at him now.  

by HulkSmash on Jan 6, 2008 3:21 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

yes, pitching prospects flame out sometimes
and sometimes they don't

but by having trade away our pitching prospects, we don't have the possibility of the 2nd successful scenario happening for our team

by The Wizard on Jan 6, 2008 7:47 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Contemplations
The chances that Fautino won't pitch in the majors, ever, due to injury, are not trivial.  He's a pure power pitcher who was borderline old for his level, and he hasn't shown his arm can handle any kind of mileage (like all young pitchers he's one pitch away from going to Birmingham for all the wrong reasons).  Say what you want, but the five guys you listed they still have are mostly past the critical injury risk, and all of them could be useful one way or another.  In other words, TANSTAAPP.

And ponder this:  Swisher's a borderline star player, gives the Sox what they desperately needed, and is signed for practically forever (through 2012) and may make as much as $50M under what it would cost to sign such a player in free agency.  (There hasn't been a player with his hitting ability in the farm system since Frank Thomas.)  

$50M goes a long way toward buying and retaining ballplayers.  Remember, the goal of a farm system is to provide cheap players.  That's what Swisher is.  Six of one, half dozen of the other...

And, finally, virtually every White Sox prospect that Williams has been willing to part with has been a severe disappointment.  That's a seven year track record.  People cried when he traded Wells, Fogg, Rauch, Olivo, Reed, Gonzalez the first time, even Dan Haigwood.  Of all the farmhands the Sox have dispatched, so far the only one that's left us with a twinge of regret is Chris Young, and even he has some obvious flaws as a hitter (low OBP)...  at some point don't we have to stop and give the guy the credit that maybe, just maybe, he actually knows more about the future of minor league players than we do?

by dgribben357 on Jan 6, 2008 3:32 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

dg357:
I don't recall you posting before this, but I'm going to have to ask you to refrain from more posts.  You make way too much sense to be here in the land of Kenny-bashing.
Christ, you'd think Fautino's name was Jesus.

Btw, I can hear old Hawk now:
"Damn,Fiesty!  Never thought I'd see such hustle from a guy named Swisher".

It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Jan 6, 2008 6:01 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Chiburb makes an excellent point, dg357.
Let me be the first to call you "delusional" because you made a rational, postive point.  What were possibly thinking?

by palehose67 on Jan 6, 2008 6:05 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Sorry
I guess I need six doses of Mariotti.

by dgribben357 on Jan 6, 2008 7:22 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I must be on the wrong site.
"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jan 7, 2008 8:12 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

While I recognize that the very
purpose of sites like SSS is provide the chance to offer opinions on our team, its players, trades, etc. (and that's why I love SSS), I chuckle when some write as though they seem to know more about the Sox farm system simpy because they have access to various statistics and have read Moneyball.  Indeed, maybe -- just maybe -- the White Sox organization knows of these same statistics and a whole lot more.  That's not to say that they can't (and haven't) made mistakes, but the absolute certainty with which some write is hilarious.  I too remember when we gave up thoe future Hall of Famers, Olivo and Reed.  How did we ever survive?

by palehose67 on Jan 6, 2008 6:02 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

yes, swisher is a fine player
I just don't like trading our top 2 pitching prospects and I'm pissed at kenny's suggestion that the pitching talent he acquired last year will fill our future pitching needs

by The Wizard on Jan 6, 2008 7:31 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Wiz I think you take this too much
To the extreme. There are many futures. One is 1-2 years, which I am convinced we are in reasonably good shape. The other 3-5 years - why get bent out of shape on 1 possible starter and 1 possible reliever for that scenario? They didnt walk away for free and many things can happen in that span.
"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jan 7, 2008 8:17 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

tdog
you're way too optimistic for this site, as mentioned before.  everyone has assumed we'll suck this year, next year, and the year after.  most everyone is looking 3-4 years down the line.  

DLS came out of nowhere, why cant that happen again?  Why cant we draft another guy or two in that 3 or 4 year span that can become studs?  hell, we drafted Gio, who everyone is crying about.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 8:23 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

also
small sample size and the KC Royals, but broadway showed us a flash that he can compete at this level last year.  he definitely doesnt have the upside of Gio or DLS, but I'd definitely be elated if he can turn into a 3/4 starter.
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 8:28 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

TDogg, you've been speaking
my language as of late. I don't know what foresight some folks on this site can accurately rely on that gives a sense of 3 years down the road. A lot can happen. Drafts, trades, etc... Sign me up for the 2008 optimistic bandwagon.

by HulkSmash on Jan 7, 2008 9:13 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

i'm curious what optimistic means
might as well start hearing peoples' win/place predictions.

by larry on Jan 7, 2008 9:19 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

lar
i dont think it as that people feel this is a first place ball team, i just think people are getting excited to see what this team can potentially do.  it just gets old to some to see the same people ragging on the same points of how KW sucks and the team sucks for trading prospects, and the prospects suck, and this guy sucks, and we need this because if we dont get this we'll suck.  by no means do i think this is a 1st place team, but can they finish first? sure, will they, i doubt it.  but am i excited to see what younger players like Fields, Quentin, Richar, Floyd, Danks and to see what swisher can do in a hitters park.
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 9:25 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

right
so what is it that people think this team can potentially do? i'm as interested as anyone in seeing the younger players play. i'm simply curious what optimistic means.

by larry on Jan 7, 2008 9:33 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

probably
best case scenario for optimism would be to compete for a division title.  Dont have any idea how many wins its gonna take to win this division though.  any thoughts on that?
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 9:36 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

95
Give or take a few.
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 9:59 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

i remember thinking
that about 90-92 would win it last year because i thought the sox, tigers, twins and indians would all be competitive and around the same amount of wins.  sox let me down on that assumption.
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 10:02 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I thought that too
but over the length of a 162 game season, the cream rises to the top, so to speak.  The small differences all play out and divide the teams more thoroughly, especially in small divisions as the league is currently composed.  The fewer the teams, the greater the average difference in wins between them...I think.
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 10:21 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

but
everyone has their own def. of optimism too.  
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 9:37 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

right
which is why i'm curious. since i know i'm at least a partial - if not considered - target of this line of posts, i'm curious how people are defining this. hulk mentioned 84 wins below. i don't think that's far away from where many on this board - even those considered "pessimists" or whatever - would put it. the difference in viewpoint between the two "camps" - if we may be so crude as to do away with the gray and group posters as such - is not over 2008. it's over what happens beyond that and what the direction of the team is. i read the "well, we don't know what will happen in the future, no one is a soothsayer, so let's worry about it when we get there." i guess that's fine - it's probably KW's position and the sox PR mouthpiece reifert said exactly that on his blog. the problem with that is we've seen other teams go down that path and seen to where it leads most. that's where the concern for this franchise lies.

by larry on Jan 7, 2008 9:54 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I really don't think our proclamations
about this whole thing are as well grounded as they ought to be.  We don't even have a good idea of the chance DLS and Gio have of making it.  One thing I noticed looking back at the old prospect lists is how rapidly they turn over. That's in part due to KW's love of trading them, but they frequently enough bomb out that to get overly attached doesn't make sense.

I don't know where you ended up on the matter, but I voted a tentative Yay on the Swisher deal.  That quote from Beane about how you have to blow it up BEFORE it becomes obvious that you have to was really to the point.  After 2006, who was suggesting to trade assets?  I'm not sure if I have a point, but I think we really need to be wary of our condemnations.  There's so little we know for sure.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 10:13 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

i've been wary
you can note that while i disapprove of this course of action, unlike some other posters, i haven't called for the firing of anyone. this is going to have to play out for me some.

as for who, JRE is on record, i believe, for trading assets at the 2006 trade deadline and certainly after the 2006 season. he may be a lot of things but he is consistent.

by larry on Jan 7, 2008 10:21 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

i think i recall that
i'd like to go back and check his reasoning. just because he did it doesn't mean he was talking team age or something like that.
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 10:24 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

he was talking team age
among other considerations (crede injury history and the second half collapse, for two).

by larry on Jan 7, 2008 10:39 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

prescient of him
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 10:44 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I was pushing...
for the Sox to start trading assets around the trading deadline in 2006.  I thought, baseball-wise, that that was the best thing to do - maximize Crede and Dye's trade value.  I also thought the Sox should deal Buehrle at that point, as I didn't think he'd be around past 2007, so what do I know?

I also understand that someone like Billy Beane has a lot more freedom of movement than Kenny Williams does.  While a complete re-build makes sense for both the A's and for the White Sox from a purely competitive standpoint, the White Sox have to worry a lot more about PR - they have a larger fan base that they have to worry about losing, a much larger and tougher media presence, and a much larger potential revenue base with which to absorb salary.  I do get that a total tear-down, Marlins-style, probably wouldn't fly in Chicago.

I actually liked how Williams handled the 2006-07 offseason - he added young talent without really adding payroll or sacrificing much of the future.  I'm not so happy with how this offseason is going.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 11:25 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

also:
since the trade basically hinges on DLS' contributions, what do you think the odds are on his success (defined however you like)?
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 10:27 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

he'll be at least a very good reliever
assuming he doesn't get hurt. percentage-wise? i'd call it 75%. i'd put the same percentage on gio being a #3 - i think he's past the injury concerns, though others may vary on the 'when' for that. obviously the upside potential for DLS is higher and we won't know exactly where that lands until he's major league ready like gio is basically right now.

by larry on Jan 7, 2008 10:43 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

what makes you say he's past injury concerns?
his workload to date has been minimal.
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 10:46 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Injury Nexus
His attrition rate is 20% which for pitchers that young in the majors is basically going to be synonymous with injury.  To be that young and in the majors, you're selecting for highly talented players.  On top of that, there's got to be a greater chance than 5% that he doesn't become a major league reliever.
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 11:01 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

that's a one size fits all stat
you asked what my opinion was, based upon what i know. to speak directly to that study, i would expect players who are rushed to the majors, like many of those included in that study were, to be more injury prone. there's more going on there than just "he's 22 so this particular player's chance of injury is 20%."

by larry on Jan 7, 2008 11:16 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

yeah i made an error there
if he isn't a major leaguer, then he isn't part of the sample, so transference of the property to minor leaguers is iffy at best.  that really didn't tell me what i wanted it to be telling me.

so how did you come up with your figure then?

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 11:35 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

so we really don't have much idea
at all about DLS' chances?  how are we supposed to evaluate this trade then?  you can make tentative conclusions at best.
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 11:54 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

i was kidding
of course you can only make tentative conclusions. as has been pointed out already, no one is a soothsayer. you know the odds to a decent degree, you try to divine what a teams intentions are, and so on. and you come up with something. there is basically no definite conclusion, largely because there are unknowns but also because different people will draw different inferences from the same set of data/facts. that's what you're seeing play out here between the so-called pessimists and optimists.

by larry on Jan 7, 2008 12:10 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

wow
Gio Gonzalez and Ryan Sweeney join Jon Rauch, Joe Borchard and Jeremy Reed on the list of former first-round draft prospects the White Sox have traded in the Ken Williams era. Williams has traded 28 minor-leaguers ranked in the franchise's top 30 by Baseball America during his eight years as general manager.

from the trib.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 10:36 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

And he's basically yet to be burned
Even if Chris Young turns out to be a long term solution in center for the Dbacks, it's still a pretty easily justified trade.
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 10:42 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

yeah
some people will argue that kip wells and fogg werent anything special, but KW still loses that trade because ritchie did more damage to us than wells or fogg did to the pirates.
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 10:47 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

they would have been something special
for a team that lacked a decent backend to their starting rotation. both wells and fogg were/are consistently good enough to shore up a rotation.

by larry on Jan 7, 2008 10:50 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Wells had 2 good years for the Pirates
Before he got hurt. He had 3.28 ERA in 2003. If he's on the Sox that season, even adjusting for league/park, I think the Sox would have won the division.

More generally, I don't like the argument that "everyone else KW traded has sucked so these guys will too". The stats and scouting reports on Gio & DLS are a much better basis to argue from than the fact that Reed and Olivo never became as good as many (including me) thought they would.

by hitlesswonder on Jan 7, 2008 11:02 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Hmmm
I wonder if you're actually right here.  Making the deductive (they sucked, so these will) argument means you're basically arguing that Kenny's scouting and analysis are better than the scouting reports and the stats that we have access to.  Doesn't that make sense?
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 11:06 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

if you dont want to buy
into the "those guys sucked, so these will too" philosophy, can you really then buy into the "beane always gets good players in return" trade theory?? arent they sort of the same thing?
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 11:11 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I didn't say I buy into
"Beane always gets good players" At least I don't think I did.

I'll agree that Beane has often made good trades for prospects and most of the prospects Williams has traded have failed to one degree or another. Certainly, that gives you some information -- it's likely the KW or the Sox internal scouting did a good job.

But I think when analyzing a trade, it's much better to use the information directly related to the players in the trade rather than rely on Williams' (or Beane's) history in other trades.

by hitlesswonder on Jan 7, 2008 11:21 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Hrm.
"But I think when analyzing a trade, it's much better to use the information directly related to the players in the trade rather than rely on Williams' (or Beane's) history in other trades."

Why?

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 11:37 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Seems like it.
And they have all the problems associated with making arguments from deduction, which means we should probably call them rules of thumb.  Though getting beat by Schuerholz is nothing to be embarrassed by.
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 11:22 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Only to a degree
I agree that in Williams has access to better scouting on his players than we do. But I still think assuming this trade is good because others were is too simplistic. It's fine to say Williams has generally done a good job trading prospects and may have done so again. But it's another to say "No one besides Young has ever been any good, these guys probably won't be good either". That's going way overboard I think, and dismisses a lot of the data available as meaningless.

What other prospects has KW traded that were on the level of Gio & DLS? Reed, Rauch, and Young come to mind...I don't know if there were any others that had either excelled at AA or were so beloved by scouts as DLS. Rauch obviously had the labrum problems -- it's actually amazing he's been an effective big league reliever. Young is good. Reed has never been an effective hitter in the majors.

If you look at the stats and scouting reports about Gio & DLS, it seems pretty likely they'll contribute in the majors. It's certainly possible that Swisher will be as valuable or more valuable.  But I think it's unlikely that this is as clear a win for the Sox as the Garcia trade turned out to be.

by hitlesswonder on Jan 7, 2008 11:35 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Okay I'm with you there
Past history should be a factor, at least, when we talk about the likelihood of this trade being a success.  It sounds like you'll weight this factor less heavily than I will.  I would like to go over a more thorough history of the important prospects KW has traded, though.
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 11:47 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

which
draws an interesting debate, which has been talked about on here.  Did he again, trade prospects that were more hype than anything, or is this the trade where he finally gets caught and traded future stars.  kind of crazy.
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 10:44 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

i like to look at the flip side of that
billy beane has been very good at trading his "stars" for prospects who pan out. the only one he's missed on (correct me if i'm wrong) is the hudson deal - and he was going up against another very good GM in that trade who rarely missed in trades.

by larry on Jan 7, 2008 10:49 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

yeah, the hudson trade was bad for him
i thought he got ripped in the jeff weaver deal by surrending carlos pena and bonderman, but i researched it more and he flipped weaver for ted lilly and some minor leaguers.  Lilly was pretty good for oakland, and bonderman has been only good for half of years, usually flaking out in the 2nd.
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 10:53 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

but then
flipped lilly for kielty, who didnt really work out.  
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 10:57 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I was afraid of this
I dont think anyone (even KW) is saying f**k the future, I am only worried about 08. I just think that there is a difference between all or the majority of your decisions being based on the future alone. The reality is some of your non baseball related things can also adversely effect your future also. (Like no one buying tickets to your games.)

The future is important. I certainly dont mean to imply it isnt. My issue comes when I see statements that tend to perfectly quantify the impact of trading a Gio and DLS, some going so far as to say the White Sox will be stuck in limbo for years to come. In my humble opinion that ignores other potential factors (among them history)

The other part is, some of the recent moves are exactly for the future. Hopefully they will play out as ones that allow the team to remain competitive and "retool" at the same time.

I just think there are more than 1 way to skin a cat.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jan 7, 2008 10:26 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Exactly. I don't see a disregard for the future.
If fact, Swisher's contract will be a great asset in the future.  Can you imagine what he would be worth in four years (assuming that he has continued to play like he has in the past) compared to what we'll actually be paying him?  I also like to think that from a business standpoint the Sox are attempting to build a fan base off of 2005 that will hopefully be with them far into the future.  Another 72 win team could severely hurt those efforts, especially compared to a Cubs team that will probably have some success this year in Class AAAA ball (the NL).  I think many --especially season ticket holders -- gave the Sox a pass for last year's lousy season.  Two in a row would be different.  Ultimately I don't expect this 2008 team to make the playoffs, but I expect them to be in the mix for a while and keep the season interesting.  That's important to me, and it's even more important to my two kids (future fans), who seem to lose some interest when the team has no chance of competing.

by palehose67 on Jan 7, 2008 10:46 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Now Now
You won't put my foot to the fire on that one yet. :-) I still want to wait till I see the complete roster. However I will say I am still very much in