Kenny says he has a plan
And I was afraid he doesn't:
Kenny Williams said he prepared himself for such a talent shift last off-season, when he stockpiled pitchers like Gonzalez, Gavin Floyd, Jon Danks and Nick Masset.
"Part of our plan going into the '06 off-season was pitching depth -- pitching depth to deal as well as pitching depth to use," said Williams, who added minor-league starters Lance Broadway and Jack Egbert are "knocking on the door."
When discussing the Swisher trade one point many made was that Gio isn't all that is portrayed to be (HR tendencies, pitcher's park, repeated AA, didn't pitch in Charlotte's park etc.). OK, but don't tell me the pitching talent acquired last year Broadway, Floyd, and Masset will fill the pitching talent gap Gio and Fautino would have filled.
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Comments
It will be Interesting
by bheikoop on Jan 6, 2008 2:24 PM CST 0 recs
there is a small problem if this is kenny's plan
by The Wizard on
Jan 6, 2008 2:41 PM CST
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The Angels ARE downright stupid
$55 million dollars to Sarge Jr after one good year.
Thewizardsofoz, the thing is, they ARE downright stupid.
by dgribben357 on
Jan 6, 2008 2:46 PM CST
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Who is stupid?
Williams has no minor league system outside of his three top prospects, but he's burned those this winter instead using money wisely (cough...cough..Cameron and not Linebrink) to fill holes.
I doubt LAA is dumb enough to trade Kendrick. I'm not all sure Williams isn't dumb enough to trade Konerko for GMJr and a reliever.
by hitlesswonder on
Jan 6, 2008 3:20 PM CST
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OK, let's assume they're stupid sometimes then
by The Wizard on
Jan 6, 2008 7:12 PM CST
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stupid with money
by larry on
Jan 6, 2008 7:23 PM CST
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I agree totally with you larry
by The Wizard on
Jan 6, 2008 7:27 PM CST
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correction
my assumption was made just for conversation's sake
by The Wizard on
Jan 6, 2008 7:40 PM CST
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Its a Tough Call
Although, do they actually even need him???
by bheikoop on
Jan 6, 2008 3:14 PM CST
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It may be plan F but it's better than A through E
The big critique-of-critiques I have is the wailing over Fautino. The guy is 21 and has pitched less than a full season in A and A+ ball and he's anointed the system's #1 prospect? We don't even know if his UCL can survive professional pitching... and neither does Beane.
by dgribben357 on Jan 6, 2008 2:45 PM CST 0 recs
very good points
if you had a choice whom to use to fill the future pitching slots, who would you go with: masset, floyd, sisco, broadway, egbert or gio and fautino?
by The Wizard on
Jan 6, 2008 2:57 PM CST
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I think that's the point though,
by HulkSmash on
Jan 6, 2008 3:21 PM CST
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yes, pitching prospects flame out sometimes
but by having trade away our pitching prospects, we don't have the possibility of the 2nd successful scenario happening for our team
by The Wizard on
Jan 6, 2008 7:47 PM CST
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Contemplations
And ponder this: Swisher's a borderline star player, gives the Sox what they desperately needed, and is signed for practically forever (through 2012) and may make as much as $50M under what it would cost to sign such a player in free agency. (There hasn't been a player with his hitting ability in the farm system since Frank Thomas.)
$50M goes a long way toward buying and retaining ballplayers. Remember, the goal of a farm system is to provide cheap players. That's what Swisher is. Six of one, half dozen of the other...
And, finally, virtually every White Sox prospect that Williams has been willing to part with has been a severe disappointment. That's a seven year track record. People cried when he traded Wells, Fogg, Rauch, Olivo, Reed, Gonzalez the first time, even Dan Haigwood. Of all the farmhands the Sox have dispatched, so far the only one that's left us with a twinge of regret is Chris Young, and even he has some obvious flaws as a hitter (low OBP)... at some point don't we have to stop and give the guy the credit that maybe, just maybe, he actually knows more about the future of minor league players than we do?
by dgribben357 on
Jan 6, 2008 3:32 PM CST
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dg357:
Christ, you'd think Fautino's name was Jesus.
Btw, I can hear old Hawk now:
"Damn,Fiesty! Never thought I'd see such hustle from a guy named Swisher".
by Chiburb on
Jan 6, 2008 6:01 PM CST
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Chiburb makes an excellent point, dg357.
by palehose67 on
Jan 6, 2008 6:05 PM CST
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I must be on the wrong site.
by Tdogg on
Jan 7, 2008 8:12 AM CST
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While I recognize that the very
by palehose67 on
Jan 6, 2008 6:02 PM CST
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yes, swisher is a fine player
by The Wizard on
Jan 6, 2008 7:31 PM CST
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Wiz I think you take this too much
by Tdogg on
Jan 7, 2008 8:17 AM CST
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tdog
DLS came out of nowhere, why cant that happen again? Why cant we draft another guy or two in that 3 or 4 year span that can become studs? hell, we drafted Gio, who everyone is crying about.
by The Deacon on
Jan 7, 2008 8:23 AM CST
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also
by The Deacon on
Jan 7, 2008 8:28 AM CST
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TDogg, you've been speaking
by HulkSmash on
Jan 7, 2008 9:13 AM CST
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i'm curious what optimistic means
by larry on
Jan 7, 2008 9:19 AM CST
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lar
by The Deacon on
Jan 7, 2008 9:25 AM CST
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right
by larry on
Jan 7, 2008 9:33 AM CST
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probably
by The Deacon on
Jan 7, 2008 9:36 AM CST
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95
by colintj on
Jan 7, 2008 9:59 AM CST
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i remember thinking
by The Deacon on
Jan 7, 2008 10:02 AM CST
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I thought that too
by colintj on
Jan 7, 2008 10:21 AM CST
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but
by The Deacon on
Jan 7, 2008 9:37 AM CST
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right
by larry on
Jan 7, 2008 9:54 AM CST
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I really don't think our proclamations
I don't know where you ended up on the matter, but I voted a tentative Yay on the Swisher deal. That quote from Beane about how you have to blow it up BEFORE it becomes obvious that you have to was really to the point. After 2006, who was suggesting to trade assets? I'm not sure if I have a point, but I think we really need to be wary of our condemnations. There's so little we know for sure.
by colintj on
Jan 7, 2008 10:13 AM CST
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i've been wary
as for who, JRE is on record, i believe, for trading assets at the 2006 trade deadline and certainly after the 2006 season. he may be a lot of things but he is consistent.
by larry on
Jan 7, 2008 10:21 AM CST
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i think i recall that
by colintj on
Jan 7, 2008 10:24 AM CST
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he was talking team age
by larry on
Jan 7, 2008 10:39 AM CST
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I was pushing...
I also understand that someone like Billy Beane has a lot more freedom of movement than Kenny Williams does. While a complete re-build makes sense for both the A's and for the White Sox from a purely competitive standpoint, the White Sox have to worry a lot more about PR - they have a larger fan base that they have to worry about losing, a much larger and tougher media presence, and a much larger potential revenue base with which to absorb salary. I do get that a total tear-down, Marlins-style, probably wouldn't fly in Chicago.
I actually liked how Williams handled the 2006-07 offseason - he added young talent without really adding payroll or sacrificing much of the future. I'm not so happy with how this offseason is going.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
Jan 7, 2008 11:25 AM CST
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also:
by colintj on
Jan 7, 2008 10:27 AM CST
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he'll be at least a very good reliever
by larry on
Jan 7, 2008 10:43 AM CST
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what makes you say he's past injury concerns?
by colintj on
Jan 7, 2008 10:46 AM CST
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Injury Nexus
by colintj on
Jan 7, 2008 11:01 AM CST
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that's a one size fits all stat
by larry on
Jan 7, 2008 11:16 AM CST
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yeah i made an error there
so how did you come up with your figure then?
by colintj on
Jan 7, 2008 11:35 AM CST
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so we really don't have much idea
by colintj on
Jan 7, 2008 11:54 AM CST
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i was kidding
by larry on
Jan 7, 2008 12:10 PM CST
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wow
from the trib.
by The Deacon on
Jan 7, 2008 10:36 AM CST
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And he's basically yet to be burned
by colintj on
Jan 7, 2008 10:42 AM CST
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yeah
by The Deacon on
Jan 7, 2008 10:47 AM CST
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they would have been something special
by larry on
Jan 7, 2008 10:50 AM CST
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Wells had 2 good years for the Pirates
More generally, I don't like the argument that "everyone else KW traded has sucked so these guys will too". The stats and scouting reports on Gio & DLS are a much better basis to argue from than the fact that Reed and Olivo never became as good as many (including me) thought they would.
by hitlesswonder on
Jan 7, 2008 11:02 AM CST
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Hmmm
by colintj on
Jan 7, 2008 11:06 AM CST
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if you dont want to buy
by The Deacon on
Jan 7, 2008 11:11 AM CST
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I didn't say I buy into
I'll agree that Beane has often made good trades for prospects and most of the prospects Williams has traded have failed to one degree or another. Certainly, that gives you some information -- it's likely the KW or the Sox internal scouting did a good job.
But I think when analyzing a trade, it's much better to use the information directly related to the players in the trade rather than rely on Williams' (or Beane's) history in other trades.
by hitlesswonder on
Jan 7, 2008 11:21 AM CST
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Hrm.
Why?
by colintj on
Jan 7, 2008 11:37 AM CST
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Seems like it.
by colintj on
Jan 7, 2008 11:22 AM CST
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Only to a degree
What other prospects has KW traded that were on the level of Gio & DLS? Reed, Rauch, and Young come to mind...I don't know if there were any others that had either excelled at AA or were so beloved by scouts as DLS. Rauch obviously had the labrum problems -- it's actually amazing he's been an effective big league reliever. Young is good. Reed has never been an effective hitter in the majors.
If you look at the stats and scouting reports about Gio & DLS, it seems pretty likely they'll contribute in the majors. It's certainly possible that Swisher will be as valuable or more valuable. But I think it's unlikely that this is as clear a win for the Sox as the Garcia trade turned out to be.
by hitlesswonder on
Jan 7, 2008 11:35 AM CST
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Okay I'm with you there
by colintj on
Jan 7, 2008 11:47 AM CST
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which
by The Deacon on
Jan 7, 2008 10:44 AM CST
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i like to look at the flip side of that
by larry on
Jan 7, 2008 10:49 AM CST
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yeah, the hudson trade was bad for him
by The Deacon on
Jan 7, 2008 10:53 AM CST
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but then
by The Deacon on
Jan 7, 2008 10:57 AM CST
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I was afraid of this
The future is important. I certainly dont mean to imply it isnt. My issue comes when I see statements that tend to perfectly quantify the impact of trading a Gio and DLS, some going so far as to say the White Sox will be stuck in limbo for years to come. In my humble opinion that ignores other potential factors (among them history)
The other part is, some of the recent moves are exactly for the future. Hopefully they will play out as ones that allow the team to remain competitive and "retool" at the same time.
I just think there are more than 1 way to skin a cat.
by Tdogg on
Jan 7, 2008 10:26 AM CST
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Exactly. I don't see a disregard for the future.
by palehose67 on
Jan 7, 2008 10:46 AM CST
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