Kenny says he has a plan
And I was afraid he doesn't:
Kenny Williams said he prepared himself for such a talent shift last off-season, when he stockpiled pitchers like Gonzalez, Gavin Floyd, Jon Danks and Nick Masset.
"Part of our plan going into the '06 off-season was pitching depth -- pitching depth to deal as well as pitching depth to use," said Williams, who added minor-league starters Lance Broadway and Jack Egbert are "knocking on the door."
When discussing the Swisher trade one point many made was that Gio isn't all that is portrayed to be (HR tendencies, pitcher's park, repeated AA, didn't pitch in Charlotte's park etc.). OK, but don't tell me the pitching talent acquired last year Broadway, Floyd, and Masset will fill the pitching talent gap Gio and Fautino would have filled.
0 recs |
184 comments
Comments
It will be Interesting
by bheikoop on Jan 6, 2008 2:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
there is a small problem if this is kenny's plan
by The Wizard on Jan 6, 2008 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Angels ARE downright stupid
$55 million dollars to Sarge Jr after one good year.
Thewizardsofoz, the thing is, they ARE downright stupid.
by dgribben357 on Jan 6, 2008 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who is stupid?
Williams has no minor league system outside of his three top prospects, but he's burned those this winter instead using money wisely (cough...cough..Cameron and not Linebrink) to fill holes.
I doubt LAA is dumb enough to trade Kendrick. I'm not all sure Williams isn't dumb enough to trade Konerko for GMJr and a reliever.
by hitlesswonder on Jan 6, 2008 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OK, let's assume they're stupid sometimes then
by The Wizard on Jan 6, 2008 7:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
stupid with money
by larry on Jan 6, 2008 7:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree totally with you larry
by The Wizard on Jan 6, 2008 7:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
correction
my assumption was made just for conversation's sake
by The Wizard on Jan 6, 2008 7:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Its a Tough Call
Although, do they actually even need him???
by bheikoop on Jan 6, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It may be plan F but it's better than A through E
The big critique-of-critiques I have is the wailing over Fautino. The guy is 21 and has pitched less than a full season in A and A+ ball and he's anointed the system's #1 prospect? We don't even know if his UCL can survive professional pitching... and neither does Beane.
by dgribben357 on Jan 6, 2008 2:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
very good points
if you had a choice whom to use to fill the future pitching slots, who would you go with: masset, floyd, sisco, broadway, egbert or gio and fautino?
by The Wizard on Jan 6, 2008 2:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's the point though,
by HulkSmash on Jan 6, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yes, pitching prospects flame out sometimes
but by having trade away our pitching prospects, we don't have the possibility of the 2nd successful scenario happening for our team
by The Wizard on Jan 6, 2008 7:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Contemplations
And ponder this: Swisher's a borderline star player, gives the Sox what they desperately needed, and is signed for practically forever (through 2012) and may make as much as $50M under what it would cost to sign such a player in free agency. (There hasn't been a player with his hitting ability in the farm system since Frank Thomas.)
$50M goes a long way toward buying and retaining ballplayers. Remember, the goal of a farm system is to provide cheap players. That's what Swisher is. Six of one, half dozen of the other...
And, finally, virtually every White Sox prospect that Williams has been willing to part with has been a severe disappointment. That's a seven year track record. People cried when he traded Wells, Fogg, Rauch, Olivo, Reed, Gonzalez the first time, even Dan Haigwood. Of all the farmhands the Sox have dispatched, so far the only one that's left us with a twinge of regret is Chris Young, and even he has some obvious flaws as a hitter (low OBP)... at some point don't we have to stop and give the guy the credit that maybe, just maybe, he actually knows more about the future of minor league players than we do?
by dgribben357 on Jan 6, 2008 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
dg357:
Christ, you'd think Fautino's name was Jesus.
Btw, I can hear old Hawk now:
"Damn,Fiesty! Never thought I'd see such hustle from a guy named Swisher".
by Chiburb on Jan 6, 2008 6:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Chiburb makes an excellent point, dg357.
by palehose67 on Jan 6, 2008 6:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
by dgribben357 on Jan 6, 2008 7:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I must be on the wrong site.
by Tdogg on Jan 7, 2008 8:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
While I recognize that the very
by palehose67 on Jan 6, 2008 6:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yes, swisher is a fine player
by The Wizard on Jan 6, 2008 7:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wiz I think you take this too much
by Tdogg on Jan 7, 2008 8:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
tdog
DLS came out of nowhere, why cant that happen again? Why cant we draft another guy or two in that 3 or 4 year span that can become studs? hell, we drafted Gio, who everyone is crying about.
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 8:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
also
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 8:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
TDogg, you've been speaking
by HulkSmash on Jan 7, 2008 9:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm curious what optimistic means
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 9:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lar
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 9:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
right
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 9:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
probably
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
95
by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 9:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i remember thinking
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought that too
by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 10:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
but
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
right
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 9:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I really don't think our proclamations
I don't know where you ended up on the matter, but I voted a tentative Yay on the Swisher deal. That quote from Beane about how you have to blow it up BEFORE it becomes obvious that you have to was really to the point. After 2006, who was suggesting to trade assets? I'm not sure if I have a point, but I think we really need to be wary of our condemnations. There's so little we know for sure.
by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i've been wary
as for who, JRE is on record, i believe, for trading assets at the 2006 trade deadline and certainly after the 2006 season. he may be a lot of things but he is consistent.
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 10:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i think i recall that
by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he was talking team age
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
prescient of him
by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was pushing...
I also understand that someone like Billy Beane has a lot more freedom of movement than Kenny Williams does. While a complete re-build makes sense for both the A's and for the White Sox from a purely competitive standpoint, the White Sox have to worry a lot more about PR - they have a larger fan base that they have to worry about losing, a much larger and tougher media presence, and a much larger potential revenue base with which to absorb salary. I do get that a total tear-down, Marlins-style, probably wouldn't fly in Chicago.
I actually liked how Williams handled the 2006-07 offseason - he added young talent without really adding payroll or sacrificing much of the future. I'm not so happy with how this offseason is going.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
also:
by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he'll be at least a very good reliever
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what makes you say he's past injury concerns?
by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 10:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Injury Nexus
by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's a one size fits all stat
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah i made an error there
so how did you come up with your figure then?
by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so we really don't have much idea
by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i was kidding
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wow
from the trib.
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And he's basically yet to be burned
by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 10:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
they would have been something special
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wells had 2 good years for the Pirates
More generally, I don't like the argument that "everyone else KW traded has sucked so these guys will too". The stats and scouting reports on Gio & DLS are a much better basis to argue from than the fact that Reed and Olivo never became as good as many (including me) thought they would.
by hitlesswonder on Jan 7, 2008 11:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if you dont want to buy
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say I buy into
I'll agree that Beane has often made good trades for prospects and most of the prospects Williams has traded have failed to one degree or another. Certainly, that gives you some information -- it's likely the KW or the Sox internal scouting did a good job.
But I think when analyzing a trade, it's much better to use the information directly related to the players in the trade rather than rely on Williams' (or Beane's) history in other trades.
by hitlesswonder on Jan 7, 2008 11:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like it.
by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Only to a degree
What other prospects has KW traded that were on the level of Gio & DLS? Reed, Rauch, and Young come to mind...I don't know if there were any others that had either excelled at AA or were so beloved by scouts as DLS. Rauch obviously had the labrum problems -- it's actually amazing he's been an effective big league reliever. Young is good. Reed has never been an effective hitter in the majors.
If you look at the stats and scouting reports about Gio & DLS, it seems pretty likely they'll contribute in the majors. It's certainly possible that Swisher will be as valuable or more valuable. But I think it's unlikely that this is as clear a win for the Sox as the Garcia trade turned out to be.
by hitlesswonder on Jan 7, 2008 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay I'm with you there
by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
which
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i like to look at the flip side of that
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 10:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, the hudson trade was bad for him
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 10:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
but then
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 10:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was afraid of this
The future is important. I certainly dont mean to imply it isnt. My issue comes when I see statements that tend to perfectly quantify the impact of trading a Gio and DLS, some going so far as to say the White Sox will be stuck in limbo for years to come. In my humble opinion that ignores other potential factors (among them history)
The other part is, some of the recent moves are exactly for the future. Hopefully they will play out as ones that allow the team to remain competitive and "retool" at the same time.
I just think there are more than 1 way to skin a cat.
by Tdogg on Jan 7, 2008 10:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. I don't see a disregard for the future.
by palehose67 on Jan 7, 2008 10:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Now Now
by Tdogg on Jan 7, 2008 9:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm in between things right now...
Right now, I'd say 84 wins is possible.
by HulkSmash on Jan 7, 2008 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
predictions
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't try to sway people on this board.
by Soulja Boy on Jan 6, 2008 9:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i love that the comment below yours
by colintj on Jan 6, 2008 10:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't try to sway people on this board.
by Soulja Boy on Jan 6, 2008 9:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kenny's Plan?
Found a cool list for it, anyways...
by ET90210 on Jan 6, 2008 5:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
A minor league system that produces
It's only when you slide in to the Cubdom of never producing young valuable minor league talent that things get ugly.
And no matter how bad our minor league system has been, and, ironically, how "can't miss" the minor league players we do trade are, the fact is, as pointed out by many is KW has done a pretty good job of getting value back.
Swisher, at 27 years old, with his bargain contract, and good metrics (Despite the fact that he walks so much/has such a good OBP that he'll be "clogging up the bases")is a value for value trade (from our minor league)
Good going KW
by MarkD on Jan 6, 2008 7:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think the Sox-Angels are up to something.....
Crede
Konerko
Willits
Santana
2 prospects
by stanchar on Jan 6, 2008 9:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
But Willits can't play center
by dgribben357 on Jan 7, 2008 6:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
broadway
by dugwood on Jan 6, 2008 10:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
seriously
''At first, it was tough to swallow,'' he said. ''I felt like it was a dream. But I'm coming to the best city in sports. I'm a huge Chicago Bears fan. Plus, I'm coming to a great organization that wants to win and that wants me. Just about now the news is setting in, and I'm getting really excited about it.''
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 7:42 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Rogers now a numbers guy, a sabermetrician.
by ballyb on Jan 7, 2008 8:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
RE: numbers
by onlysoxfaninboston on Jan 7, 2008 8:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that's like saying
by ruffster on Jan 7, 2008 9:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I read that article yesterday morning
by HulkSmash on Jan 7, 2008 9:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It was amazing..
by BobbySouthSide on Jan 7, 2008 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the same thing re: idiocy
Also, all you UM folks - Purdue rules the hardwood, boys!
by winningugly on Jan 7, 2008 10:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hahahah royals fans dont think much of the sox.
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 11:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think...
That might not be true in a couple of years, though.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed about this year
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm as pessimistic as anyone about the Sox
Anyway, it's one thing for me to disparage the Sox; it's another for some yahoos from KC to do it.
by hitlesswonder on Jan 7, 2008 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
also
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 11:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not by VORP they aren't
by colintj on Jan 7, 2008 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That was actually
by Tdogg on Jan 7, 2008 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 12:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
for all those who wondered
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3184646&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 11:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Mistake by Clemens
By doing this, he also has set himself up to having to go in front of Congress next week during the hearings. By not going, will only make him look worse now.
Schilling got his wish, I guess. Clemens never backs down to anyone - even Piazza! He might have dug himself a deeper hole here.
by BobbySouthSide on Jan 7, 2008 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
have to prove up perjury
of course, if there's smoking gun documentation of clemens receiving or taking PEDs, he's fucked. assuming clemens is right that there isn't any such thing (he should know, though may be too bull-headed to let this go and is going ahead anyway), he'll be in no worse position.
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True, but
One would think that there was some actual evidence that was accumulated.
by BobbySouthSide on Jan 7, 2008 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wouldnt
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
by BobbySouthSide on Jan 7, 2008 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you see the "show" last night
Eff Clemens. "You would've thought from all I've done for baseball I'd have gotten the benefit of the doubt." Pompous a*@!
by winningugly on Jan 7, 2008 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if he didn't put all his findings in there
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
does anyone
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 11:54 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Floyd...
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
eh
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Konerko to the Angels
- Konerko for Figgins & Santana
- Konerko for Willits, Santana & a middle releiver
- Konerko & Crede for Kendrick, Santana & a middle reliever
4. All of these deals are ridiculous.
by BoKnows on Jan 7, 2008 12:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Ridiculous
No way the Angels trade Kendrick - they wouldn't to the Marlins and that is a reason why Miggy was dealt to the Tigers.
I could see them trying to trade Santana (maybe) and GM Jr. The rest of the scenarios are ridiculous.
by BobbySouthSide on Jan 7, 2008 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I could see...
I don't think Konerko's worth a whole lot more than Matthews. Although I don't want to see Sarge Jr. in a Sox uniform at all.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I gotta disagree with you there
I don't think Matthews is very good. I don't think he has the glove for CF or the bat for a corner position. His contract is abysmal; even if LAA were to pay a third of it, it would still be bad. He's like Rowand without the decent defense plus being 3 years older. GMJr + cash + Santana seems more reasonable (although I still wouldn't do that), but the inclusion of GMJr should mean the Sox don't have to include a prospect to get Santana.
by hitlesswonder on Jan 7, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
matthews is 1.5 years older
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what is league average OPS for each position?
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-burdens-of-being-average/
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 12:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Good stuff
by Tdogg on Jan 7, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How did the playoffs go last year??
Now assuming that Figgins stays at 3rd (too valuable at the top of the line up and too crowded of an outfield situation), then it falls to 1st base to be filled by a prototypical and reliable power hitter.
Kotchman ain't that.
Look at his numbers for the past 3 years and considering 3rd base isn't going to be a power bat and tell me that if you are the Angels GM you are going to go all in with Kotchman in 2008.
I remember in 2006 when Konerko passed on the Angels and all the Angel bloggers were touting that Kotchman was going to outpeform Konerko in 2006. Didn't happen in 2006, Kotchman tanked it, and didn't happen in 2007 (no power).
If I'm the Angels GM and I want to cut down the risk of corner infielders not being able to protect Vlad, I'm going with Konerko by far..
by MarkD on Jan 7, 2008 12:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Kotchman vs. Konerko
Kotchman is making approx $400k/year and is 24, Konerko is making $12+mil/year and is 31.
Kotchman is a lefty, Konerko is a righty.
I like Kotchman a lot...Konerko is declining.
by BobbySouthSide on Jan 7, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kotchman is better
But that doesn't mean that the LAA aren't interested in Konerko. They still have the DH position to fill and Konerko would be far better than someone like GMJr there. And it's possible that LAA managemnet just has a thing for Konerko.
I think it's unlikely anything happens, but I find it eminently believable that LAA would consider adding Konerko while trying to dumnp GMJr's contract.
by hitlesswonder on Jan 7, 2008 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we went over this already
Obviously the argument includes more factors.
by Tdogg on Jan 7, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i'll give you one year
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
And as I asked below is Kotch suppose to develop power? I honestly don't know.
by Tdogg on Jan 7, 2008 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if you expect a legit decline
he should develop more power, though the signals on that are somewhat mixed. i don't think he'll ever be the power hitter PK is/was. but that doesn't really matter for purposes of this comparison.
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think we are far off
by Tdogg on Jan 7, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Platooned
PA vs LP 84
I realize his avg was fine vs the left handers but thats it. He had a ridiculous .333 BABIP against them and hit 0 Hrs. In fact in his very young career he doesnt have any HRs off a lefty.
by Tdogg on Jan 7, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that may have to do more
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
May be something to that
by Tdogg on Jan 7, 2008 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jeez...
Do you know whose career Kotchman's most resembles at this point in time? David Ortiz's.
When David Ortiz was 24, he put up a .282/.364/.446 line with only ten homers in 130 games. That looks awfully similar to what Kotchman did in 2007.
That's not to say that Kotchman will turn into another David Ortiz, but it does show you that Kotchman would hardly be the first player in history to develop power in his mid-twenties.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree Jerry
by Tdogg on Jan 7, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Even if...
I'm sure the Angels could find a use for Konerko, but Kotchman is a lot more valuable at this point in time.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Funny.
by dantesox on Jan 7, 2008 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i don't think it makes sense
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
From
by dantesox on Jan 7, 2008 3:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
DH
by BobbySouthSide on Jan 7, 2008 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kotchman
I expect Konerko's OPS back closer to .900 this year.
by Tdogg on Jan 7, 2008 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
his power doesn't make much difference
and, what a total shock, Tdogg going with the optimistic projection for konerko. i'm flabbergasted.
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here we go again.
But his lineup is overall improved around him and his OBP was down also because of that luck.
You think a OPS of .880 or .890 would shock you?
by Tdogg on Jan 7, 2008 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
.880 or .890...
I think a reasonable estimation is that he has a couple more .350/.500 seasons left in him. There's nothing wrong with that at all, but he's not a superlative hitter.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree about OBP to a large measure
would i be shocked? no. but i don't call it likely. .860 is my guess.
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Willits and Figgins
I would think Figgins and GM Jr. would be available for the right price.
by BobbySouthSide on Jan 7, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would be thrilled with this deal:
I think that's doable for the Angels. They really need a 3B and a big bat. They can spare all 3 of those guys.
Is this deal so bad for LA ?
by White Sox Randy on Jan 7, 2008 1:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I would be thrilled too, but -
I think they want to get rid of one of their outfielders and that would most notably be GM Jr. They then could put Willits in LF and put Paulie at 1b with Kotchman platooning with Anderson as DH or put Kotchman at 1B and Paulie at DH with Anderson off the bench.
I really hope Kenny isn't snookered into somehow taking GM Jr. if a trade with the Angels works out....please no.
by BobbySouthSide on Jan 7, 2008 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why do they need a third baseman?
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Only if healthy
Figgins isn't too good defensively either.
by BobbySouthSide on Jan 7, 2008 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That "if healthy"...
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hm.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
brandon wood?
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
I would be happy with Santana/Shields for Konerko/Crede.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
why?
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
But I like Ervin Santana probably more than most people here do.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
defensively
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think so.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if thats the case
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, and...
Between Fields, Konerko, Pierzynski, and Dye, the Sox defense is going to be below-average as it is. I don't think they can afford to have Swisher in center.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
dye and fields
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
when i think of dye and fields
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
probably the same arm
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Another good point.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I swear
by dantesox on Jan 7, 2008 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can you elaborate?
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Konerko.
by dantesox on Jan 7, 2008 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't think...
He's a solid player, but to be frank, there isn't a whole lot of demand for his services. 1B/DH types who can hit acceptably but can't field are a dime a dozen.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 3:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it
I agree with you about Crede right now. Who knows where he stands healthwise right now? A trade of Crede will (or at least shouldn't) happen until after he shows something in spring training. Otherwise his value is at an all time low right now.
A trade with the Angels that would include Crede and Konerko would probably be done during spring training - Konerko is 10 and 5 on May 1.
But, why would the Sox trade Konerko in spring training - you would think that would have some negative PR between the players right before the season starts and could taint the season - he is the team captain and a very vocal lockeroom presence.
My thinking is Konerko could go, but that will happen before spring training. In my opinion you cannot trade Crede before spring training....so my conclusion is Konerko and Crede will not be traded in the same trade.
Make sense? I rambled a bit...
by BobbySouthSide on Jan 7, 2008 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
depends
by The Deacon on Jan 7, 2008 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see
by ballyb on Jan 7, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
implying you don't know what codicil is?
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Some of us don't
by ballyb on Jan 7, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rember, Figgins is a FA after this year like Crede
And, Figgins is pretty bad at third. I would love him to play CF and 2B for the Sox while also breaking in and using Owens and Richar more selectively. Shields probably solidifies the pen and Santana is a big ? He could be nothing.
I think the Angels know that Crede should be fine and they may wait to see it. I think this deal would really help both teams. The Angels have a lot of guys that look good but haven't put together solid full seasons- Kendrick,Kotchman,Quinlan,Morales,Wood,Izturis,Aybar etc. Konerko and Crede changes that for them.
by White Sox Randy on Jan 7, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why should anyone...
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i'd bet he has
by larry on Jan 7, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Angels lineup could do some damage!
2B Kendrick (R)
RF Vlad (R)
DH Anderson (L)
1B Kotchman (L)
CF Hunter (R)
LF Mathews Jr. (S)
C Napoli (R)
SS Aybar (S)
Bench
Willits (S)
Izturis (S)
Rivera (R)
Morales (S)
McPherson (L)
by BobbySouthSide on Jan 7, 2008 1:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Ehhh
by hitlesswonder on Jan 7, 2008 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but
by BobbySouthSide on Jan 7, 2008 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Contracts
Contract: 2008 - $12 mil; 2009 - $12 mil; 2010 - $12 mil
Crede
Contract: 2008 - Arb. Eligible, 2009 - FA
Chone
2008 - $4.75 million; 2009 - Arb. Eligible
Santana
2008 - Near Minimum; 2009-11: Arb. Eligible
Shields
2008: $4.25 million; 2009: $5 million; 2010: $5.35 million
Send $36 million to Anaheim
Receive about $24 million from Anaheim. (only guaranteed money. I'm not factoring arbitration)
3 more years of PK for 1-2 of Chone, 1-4 or Santana and 3 or Shields.
That would be an excellent deal for the Sox, not so much for the Angels.
by BoKnows on Jan 7, 2008 2:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

by 




















