Joe Crede collects 2 hits, likely White Sox opening day 3B

My goodness...

The White Sox are certainly doing there best to quell the excitement I had for the return of baseball, first with pushing Jerry Owens on us as an actual (starting) baseball player and now with Crede. I understand the Crede situation, don't get me wrong -- Williams hates selling 'low' and doesn't want to trade Crede for squat -- but that doesn't make me feel any better. This is just a miserable situation -- Fields has nothing left to do at AAA.

Ugh...

by CWSKeith on Mar 19, 2008 12:50 AM CDT 0 recs

The trifecta of dumb

Will be when they announce that Uribe has won the 2nd base job as well.

The knights will be exciting to watch as we wait to send off dead weight at the ASB.

by southsideirish71 on Mar 19, 2008 1:30 AM CDT up 0 recs

...and Owens leading off

This spring training has been a real buzzkiller. Each move dampens the enthusiasm another notch. I guess a Crede contract extension will be the next announcement.

"We're actually doing some different things at the top of the lineup, but our key is Jerry Owens being our center fielder and our leadoff guy" - JD

by ChicagoPete on Mar 19, 2008 5:55 AM CDT up 0 recs

Come on, folks -

Ramirez is one of the most exciting signings of the offseason, and he may play his way into the linep. Swisher is kicking ass. Richar is not going to start and may not go North (all the way North) at all. Cabrera looks, well, like Cabrera, which is an improvement from Uribe at SS (who, to be candid, is an improvement from Richar).

My biggest concern is the GD pitching coming from 3-5, wth the exception of Danks, who looks improved, and from the 'pen, who looks not much better than last year.

If you were hoping for 85-90 wins I bet you're disappointed. Me, I took the under.

Hey man, this game is a bunch of front-runners. If you're good, they kiss your butt. If not, you're horse s---.

by winningugly on Mar 19, 2008 7:22 AM CDT up 0 recs

Cheat, disable this guy.

He didn't read the fine print regarding no "unders."

Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?

by ballyb on Mar 19, 2008 7:56 AM CDT up 0 recs

What are you buying today, BB?

Do you sell into the relief rally? (I promise, once baseball becomes exciting again I'll shut up about our financial crises.)

Hey man, this game is a bunch of front-runners. If you're good, they kiss your butt. If not, you're horse s---.

by winningugly on Mar 19, 2008 8:26 AM CDT up 0 recs

I guess gold ,

if it drops 955 and below.

Inflation.

UNLESS you're one of the lucky ones to have a US Gov't "excluding food and energy" card that allow that discount at gas stations, grocery stores, etc.

I got one. It's really great. I hear the gov't is adding household items to the exclusion, so furniture, appliances, and clothing will soon be eligible ; )

What a great country.

Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?

by ballyb on Mar 19, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up 0 recs

agreed WU

even with the bozo's ozzie wants to start, we still have a good enough lineup to score runs. the pitching staff is definitely the biggest concern. I see danks had a nice number of K's, but did walk a few and gave up 4 Earned. I dont recall Floyd and Contreras' last starts, how did they fare?

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Mar 19, 2008 8:03 AM CDT up 0 recs

Easily

As one on the other side. Crede starting short term at 3rd is not death. And Crede, Cab and Uribe infield will at least be good defensively.

I am disappointed not to see Fields (assuming that happens) but he needs regular abs. My main concern stills lies with Floyd and Contreras. I thought Jim's piece over at Sox Machine was fitting.

Have I told you Jerry Owens sucks? I have? Let me tell you again!

by Tdogg on Mar 19, 2008 8:29 AM CDT up 0 recs

I had a feeling about this

We know and love our Ozzie, and he's very predictable. No way he was going to go out there with a weak defense, he'll give up offense to get his best gloves on the field. This pitching staff isn't strong enough to pitch around a defense that's giving up a bunch of extra outs. Buuuuuut, then he doesn't have the cojones to even try experimenting with JD in LF or swapping OCab with Uribe at SS/2B.

What exactly do we owe OCab? He's a one year rental who's stated a few times he doesn't want to extend his contract here. If Uribe's the better SS, then move OCab to 2B - who cares if it costs him money as a FA? I certainly don't. The bats are going to be in the lineup anyway, might as well optimize your defense. I just have a bad feeling about this season, I hope my gut instinct is wrong.

"We're actually doing some different things at the top of the lineup, but our key is Jerry Owens being our center fielder and our leadoff guy" - JD

by ChicagoPete on Mar 19, 2008 9:01 AM CDT up 0 recs

The issue with moving Juan

Is his bat is still in the lineup... if he could produce with it consistantly, and not swing for the fences on every pitch he would be of extreme value - sadly history shows not to expect that. (And if that was the case - we wouldn't have needed Cab)

So instead of a big splash, there were ripples -- enough to change the tide, Williams believes

by Brush Back on Mar 19, 2008 9:09 AM CDT up 0 recs

But that's my point

He's going to be in the god damn lineup anyways - he's 4 years younger than OCab, even though he's lost a step he's a probably still a better SS than OCab.

"We're actually doing some different things at the top of the lineup, but our key is Jerry Owens being our center fielder and our leadoff guy" - JD

by ChicagoPete on Mar 19, 2008 9:15 AM CDT up 0 recs

The available fielding systems do

not support that contention. They support the idea that 3 years ago Juan was the better SS. But he has declined from one of the best to above average to average. Cabrera is above average.

by bhoov on Mar 19, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up 0 recs

That's interesting

Uribe definitely deteriorated last year, but I'll have a hard time believing OCab is a better SS than him until I see it with my own eyes. I'll be the first to admit I haven't seen him play so I can't make an honest judgement. IMO Uribe is a decent SS with a plus arm, so if OCab is four years older and still better that's impressive.

"We're actually doing some different things at the top of the lineup, but our key is Jerry Owens being our center fielder and our leadoff guy" - JD

by ChicagoPete on Mar 19, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up 0 recs

just as FYI

some measures rank them exactly the same - although it should perhaps be noted that uribe's decline has been precipitous. i haven't seen any, though, who ranked uribe above him.

and cabrera is a horse who is in great shape. the decline in his skills will come but he seems to be a bit in the vizquel or ozzie smith mold that he has an extended peak (or very slow decline) in the field.

by larry on Mar 19, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up 0 recs

IT REALLY PISSES ME OFF......

THAT JOE CREDE IS STILL HERE !

I don't like Uribe as the starting 2B. I want him as a utility player.

I hope Jerry Owens goes down for the season any day now so that the Sox will be forced to play baseball players in the OF. An OF of Swisher, Dye, Anderson and Quentin is damn good.

Could the Sox trade whatever they get for Crede along with Uribe,Richar,Owens,Masset,Haeger,Sisco and either Egbert or Broadway for Brian Roberts? Please?

Sign a vet or two like Freddy Garcia to bolster the rotation in the second half.

by White Sox Randy on Mar 19, 2008 8:19 AM CDT 0 recs

Cheat, WTF?

Today is St. Joseph's day. Why no red on the screen? Diversity, man, for my Italian bretheren. Represent!

Hey man, this game is a bunch of front-runners. If you're good, they kiss your butt. If not, you're horse s---.

by winningugly on Mar 19, 2008 8:38 AM CDT 0 recs

this could be like

the Empire State Building floodlight colors. It was green for St. Patty's day, but its scheduled to be blue for UNICEF today. Starting tomorrow, its green/pink/yellow for Easter. No St. Joe day lighting.

Must be because there are no Italians in NYC... ;)

Lord, beer me strength.

by Nordhagen on Mar 19, 2008 9:19 AM CDT up 0 recs

Throw this guy in jail, Cheat.

Just like the original hizzonor did to the Italian who threw red dye into the river about 30 years ago.

Some nerve.

Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?

by ballyb on Mar 19, 2008 9:29 AM CDT up 0 recs

The Count is 9

The number of remaining players from the 2005 World Series championship team: Mark Buehrle, Jose Contreras, Joe Crede, Jermaine Dye, Bobby Jenks, Paul Konerko, Pablo Ozuna, A.J. Pierzynski and Juan Uribe.

Sun Times Link

(Nothing to read in it - just providing it)

So instead of a big splash, there were ripples -- enough to change the tide, Williams believes

by Brush Back on Mar 19, 2008 9:01 AM CDT 0 recs

Is it me

Or does there just seem to be this growing loss of drive in the Sox already. Its probably just the dredge of the ST games - but there seems to be a loss of the enthusiasm that was around a couple of weeks ago.

(I'm assuming its just me)

So instead of a big splash, there were ripples -- enough to change the tide, Williams believes

by Brush Back on Mar 19, 2008 9:05 AM CDT 0 recs

I chalk it up to the economy

there are only so many outlets to pour your pessimism into. With the markets draining the collective dourness, the griping about Owens/Ozzie/sportswriters etc. has taken a hit...

Lord, beer me strength.

by Nordhagen on Mar 19, 2008 9:11 AM CDT up 0 recs

I think it's cause it's the same old, same old

There's a couple of new faces in Swisher & OCab, but other than that it's a rerun of last year with a worse starting pitching staff.

Last year starting lineup:

Pods LF
Erstad CF
Thome DH
PK 1B
JD RF
AJ C
Iguchi 2B
Crede 3B
Uribe SS

What have we gained? You basically swap OCab for Iguchi, which I consider a wash. You swap Swisher for Pods, which is a huge plus - but IMO that get's negated by the continued decline of Thome, JD, PK, AJ and Crede.

SP last year:

MB
JV
JG
JC
Danks

This year you swap Floyd for Garland, which is a loss IMO. Danks should improve, but that will probably be offset by Contreras' continued steep decline. The bullpen is basically the same, accept a few question mark pieces have been swapped.

Same ole same ole as far as I'm concerned.

"We're actually doing some different things at the top of the lineup, but our key is Jerry Owens being our center fielder and our leadoff guy" - JD

by ChicagoPete on Mar 19, 2008 9:12 AM CDT up 0 recs

I know this has been beat to death....

But what happened to Josh Fields in LF? He could still get regular ABs at LF, DH and 3B. There is absolutely no reason to send him to Birmingham.

He could DH against lefties early in the season, which would help Thome stay healthy and help the offense. Once Crede is traded, then just insert him as the everyday 3B. I don't think it's that hard of a decision to figure out.

" You might be impressed with your analysis, but I'm not. Don't waste anymore of my time."

by BoKnows on Mar 19, 2008 9:10 AM CDT 0 recs

What's most ironic?

The four guys who give you most cause for hope because they have the potential to break out and surprise you - Fields, Richar, Quentin and Ramirez - will probably all start the season at AAA. In the meantime, mopes like Owens and Uribe get the starting jobs, and Ozuna is guaranteed a bench spot.

"We're actually doing some different things at the top of the lineup, but our key is Jerry Owens being our center fielder and our leadoff guy" - JD

by ChicagoPete on Mar 19, 2008 9:30 AM CDT 0 recs

I would argue the person with the most potential

and importance of break out will still be on the team. (Danks) The Sox need him to take a huge step forward and he may be ready to do it.

Have I told you Jerry Owens sucks? I have? Let me tell you again!

by Tdogg on Mar 19, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up 0 recs

The pitching staff?

This pitching staff is the reason why Crede is not being traded and Fields is going to AAA.

"We're actually doing some different things at the top of the lineup, but our key is Jerry Owens being our center fielder and our leadoff guy" - JD

by ChicagoPete on Mar 19, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up 0 recs

I hope the pitching staff

Likes when sox are having their usual problems with a lefty and a guy who hit lefties well is helping the Knights hit while Crede is popping up to the 2nd baseman with Hawk screaming Daggumitt.

by southsideirish71 on Mar 19, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up 0 recs

That is not the reason

If Crede's value were higher he would be gone.

Have I told you Jerry Owens sucks? I have? Let me tell you again!

by Tdogg on Mar 19, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up 0 recs

Floyd's gonna too.

There is certainly a very unsettled feel presently, but it's not entirely a bad thing. It's just what it is right now, for all the reasons given so often on this blog.

by dantesox on Mar 19, 2008 9:46 AM CDT up 0 recs

Floyd's going to take a huge step forward?

Why do you think that?

" You might be impressed with your analysis, but I'm not. Don't waste anymore of my time."

by BoKnows on Mar 19, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up 0 recs

I agree,

though the step I predict is one off the proverbial ledge. Is there anything he's doing differently this spring compared to last summer/fall?

Hey man, this game is a bunch of front-runners. If you're good, they kiss your butt. If not, you're horse s---.

by winningugly on Mar 19, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up 0 recs

I think Floyd is terrible

and always will be a high touted prospect that never lived up to expectations. I hope he proves me wrong, but I don't see it.

For what it's worth, a few people I know played with Floyd in All-Star games and showcases when he was coming out of HS, and said he is a complete headcase. A lot can change from the age of 18 to 25, but I'm just sayin....

" You might be impressed with your analysis, but I'm not. Don't waste anymore of my time."

by BoKnows on Mar 19, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up 0 recs

The question is...

How did he walk off the mound to the dugout?

"We're actually doing some different things at the top of the lineup, but our key is Jerry Owens being our center fielder and our leadoff guy" - JD

by ChicagoPete on Mar 19, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up 0 recs

That's not good.

The 2 1/2" X 2 1/2" square between the ears.

Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?

by ballyb on Mar 19, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up 0 recs

I like what I've seen from Sep "07

until now. And, although I usually don't put a whole lot of meaning into the usual "I get it now....I have confidence...it's my time..." stuff, I think in Floyd's case, it has relevance.A big key with him will be command and effectiveness of both his curve and developing slider. Now, I'm not saying he's gonna win 17 with a 3.50, but perhaps 175 innings at 4.5 with reason to think he will keep improving from there.

by dantesox on Mar 19, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up 0 recs

I

should also say that my reason for moderate optimism also involved his entire year of AAA work last year as an indicator.

by dantesox on Mar 19, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up 0 recs

Floyd's Sept was encouraging

and I hoped to see him take a step forward this BUT.... I dont know Dante. Its only spring but the differences between he and Danks are hugh imo.

Floyd does seem to have Ozzie behind him. Don't laugh, thats worth a lot. He may not know offense but Oz is decent with starting pitching and if he sees something in Floyd that is nothing to sneeze at. Personally I do think he can be a 4-5th starter and attain the high 4 era or even 5.00 era one would need from that slot but he has to get off to a decent start. What are the chances of that?

Have I told you Jerry Owens sucks? I have? Let me tell you again!

by Tdogg on Mar 19, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up 0 recs

Oh, I agree.

I really, really like Danks. Can you say Cole Hamels? I don't see that much difference....previous success and the confidence it brings the real discernable difference between the two. I do think Floyd is more fragile and I don't have the same level of optimism for him I do Danks....that's why I say moderate optimism in Floyd's case. I f he can reduce his seemingly higher potential for volatility (both in performance and emotional status), it will go a long way in helping him give us those 150-175 innings in the 4.3-4.7 range.

by dantesox on Mar 19, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up 0 recs

An interesting side note about Danks.

I took a late afternoon break from work yesterday and went home. When WSCR went to their interactive segment, I was pleasantly surprised when I checked my XM radio to find the Sox game on. The San Diego broadcasters were absolutely raving about Danks, thinking he surely must have played winter ball with his advanced repertoire/confident approach...etc....etc. Just interesting to get another perspective.

by dantesox on Mar 19, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up 0 recs

The knights will be a good team

The problem is that this does nothng for development. AAA is where Felix Diaz is Cy Young, and Jeremy Reed is Wade Boggs, and Brian Anderson is a 300 hitter. They will put up great numbers, then come back and have major adjustments because they dont face AAAA pitchers every other start. CC Sabathia doesnt groove a 91 mph meatball down the dock and yell hit me.

by southsideirish71 on Mar 19, 2008 9:46 AM CDT up 0 recs

On the positive side

We'll no longer have the worst minor league system in baseball if those 4 get sent down. Maybe KW was tired of hearing bad our system sucked.

"We're actually doing some different things at the top of the lineup, but our key is Jerry Owens being our center fielder and our leadoff guy" - JD

by ChicagoPete on Mar 19, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up 0 recs

Optimism worthy of Bally!

Nice job, Pete!

Next time, Bhoov, do some research.

by Chiburb on Mar 19, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up 0 recs

Where's that bottle of happy juice?

"We're actually doing some different things at the top of the lineup, but our key is Jerry Owens being our center fielder and our leadoff guy" - JD

by ChicagoPete on Mar 19, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up 0 recs

Syringe?

Hey man, this game is a bunch of front-runners. If you're good, they kiss your butt. If not, you're horse s---.

by winningugly on Mar 19, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up 0 recs

Not yet

I think for this season the doctor recommends starting with hallucinogenics, get that 2005 flashback thing going.

"We're actually doing some different things at the top of the lineup, but our key is Jerry Owens being our center fielder and our leadoff guy" - JD

by ChicagoPete on Mar 19, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up 0 recs

I'm out.

So many F-ing things have to fall into place for us to compete, it's ridiculous.

I don't think I can watch the early games. As Carly famously sang, "I haven't got time for the pain."

Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?

by ballyb on Mar 19, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up 0 recs

Some of you guys

Should really be checked for manic depression. lol.

Have I told you Jerry Owens sucks? I have? Let me tell you again!

by Tdogg on Mar 19, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up 0 recs

Its a prerequisite...

to getting your Sox Pride Card

So instead of a big splash, there were ripples -- enough to change the tide, Williams believes

by Brush Back on Mar 19, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up 0 recs

I've been checked.

It's in the family.

Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?

by ballyb on Mar 19, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up 0 recs

Ok, this should be good

Now that the roster and lineup are taking shape, I'm running simulations with Owens leading off in CF, Crede at 3B and Uribe at 2B.

I'll run 20 seasons to get a sampling, but the first two seasons, uh...not good: 69-93 & 71-91, where's that syringe?

"We're actually doing some different things at the top of the lineup, but our key is Jerry Owens being our center fielder and our leadoff guy" - JD

by ChicagoPete on Mar 19, 2008 10:53 AM CDT 0 recs

Well...

In the team's current configuration I think 70 wins is about right. In Owens, Crede, and Uribe you've got 3 guys who look like .650 OPS players. And Contreras and Floyd have looked terrible to me. If you factor in declines from AJ, Thome, O-Cab it's not a good looking team. The bullpen should be better than last year, but the offense should be just about as bad and the starting pitching worse.

I was more optimistic when I thought the Sox could get close to an .800 OPS from 3B, 2B, and the 3rd OF .

On an optimisitic note, I was pretty down on Danks at the end of last season but I think I was wrong. I think it's reasonable to hope he posts a 5 ERA this season and pitches a bunch of innings.

by hitlesswonder on Mar 19, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up 0 recs

LOL!

Hey man, this game is a bunch of front-runners. If you're good, they kiss your butt. If not, you're horse s---.

by winningugly on Mar 19, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up 0 recs

Red Sox refuse to go to Japan?!?

Apparently, this threat is in support of coach's receiving the same $40K stipend as the players. If it were the White Sox, I could see them paying Walker $40K to stay home...

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/sports/AP-BBA-Red-Sox-Boycott.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Next time, Bhoov, do some research.

by Chiburb on Mar 19, 2008 11:36 AM CDT 0 recs

You know

Maybe the bazillionaires on the Red Sox might just hand over their 40k to the staff. I mean what is 40k to a guy making 15 million, toilet paper.

by southsideirish71 on Mar 19, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up 0 recs

what's 40K

to an entity making $6 billion in revenue?

by larry on Mar 19, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up 0 recs

Yeah, dollar-denominated, too

TP, indeed.

Hey man, this game is a bunch of front-runners. If you're good, they kiss your butt. If not, you're horse s---.

by winningugly on Mar 19, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up 0 recs

I hope Red Sox Nation

enjoyed sitting on their asses waiting for the game to start...hah!

Nice way to treat your fans...by pouting in the dugout.

Share the passion, show the swagger

by tailgater on Mar 19, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up 0 recs

Score reporting Wood hurt his back

Oh how he taunts and teases that team

So instead of a big splash, there were ripples -- enough to change the tide, Williams believes

by Brush Back on Mar 19, 2008 11:46 AM CDT 0 recs

And keeps us in stitches

Hey man, this game is a bunch of front-runners. If you're good, they kiss your butt. If not, you're horse s---.

by winningugly on Mar 19, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up 0 recs

Seems like a decent guy.

Baldelli syndrome.

Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?

by ballyb on Mar 19, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up 0 recs

contreras scratched with flu, masset in

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/03/contreras-scrat.html

by larry on Mar 19, 2008 11:49 AM CDT 0 recs

Also from Gonzo:

TUCSON, Ariz. - The White Sox trimmed their spring training roster to 32 players Wednesday morning with four cuts.

Left-handed reliever Andrew Sisco and catcher Donny Lucy were optioned to Triple-A Charlotte, and first baseman Brad Eldred and pitcher Tomo Ohka were reassigned to minor league camp.

Reliever D.J. Carrasco, catcher Paul Phillips and outfielder Jason Bourgeois are the remaining non-roster invitees left in camp.

Next time, Bhoov, do some research.

by Chiburb on Mar 19, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up 0 recs

Speaking of Vegas...

This site says Sox O/U Wins is 77, not 79 1/2. Has the Cubs at 89.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/mlb/odds/futures/

Next time, Bhoov, do some research.

by Chiburb on Mar 19, 2008 12:41 PM CDT 0 recs

All precincts have now reported

After 20 simulations with Owens, Crede and Uribe starting using PECOTA for pitching and hitting the results are:

AVG record 75-87

RS = 688
RA = 753

This doesn't allow for defense, maybe add a couple wins for that. Vegas' 77 wins sounds about right. The computers also predict that you are not excited about your CWS, and that your enthusiasm for the season is flagging.

"We're actually doing some different things at the top of the lineup, but our key is Jerry Owens being our center fielder and our leadoff guy" - JD

by ChicagoPete on Mar 19, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up 0 recs

You arent taking heart into consideration!!

Or the fact that we have two Cubans that dont want to be emberassed.

How do you fuck a nut?!

by omnipotent grab on Mar 19, 2008 12:54 PM CDT up 0 recs

What's the big deal?

Thanks to the cold weather and Joe's back, he'll be on the DL in no time, thus opening the way for the Josh Fields Era.

So, go ahead and add 3 wins to your prediction.

Share the passion, show the swagger

by tailgater on Mar 19, 2008 12:54 PM CDT up 0 recs

hah

I ran a few variations earlier this spring - about the only thing that really makes a significant difference is getting Owens OUT of the lineup, that's worth 2 more wins (or 2 fewer losses, depends how you look at it). Paging Mrs. Pods! Paging Mrs. Pods!

"We're actually doing some different things at the top of the lineup, but our key is Jerry Owens being our center fielder and our leadoff guy" - JD

by ChicagoPete on Mar 19, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up 0 recs